Why won't it work ?

[The Critic]

During my extended stay on BITOG, the consensus of members and chemical experts has been to avoid the usage of Lubegard fluid converters. Allpar, a forum tailored toward the Mopar community, also lists warnings on their transmission frequently asked questions page warning against the usage of Lubegard and Dexron-III in generating a Mopar 7176/9602 compatible fluid, as transmission failures have been reported while using this mix.

While I can certainly see the differences between a Lubegard/Dexron-III mix in comparison to some OE fluids, I personally fail to understand how this fluid combination can cause longevity problems with transmissions. While the low-temperature performance of Dexron-III may be inferior to higher-quality fluids such as ATF+4, superior low-temperature performance is not a concern for those of us who do not live in extremely cold climates. However, I can understand the concern of reduced oxidation tolerance with the low quality base fluids, especially with last-generation Group I fluids used in Dexron-III(G), but the Dexron-III(H) fluids are now using Group II or better base fluids. The dynamic friction retention of the Lubegard mix may be inferior to the OE fluids, but for those of us who practiced frequent service intervals (yearly fluid changes), how would this, and the reduced oxidation tolerance of lesser base fluids, be an issue?

If one performs a used oil analysis of the Lubegard/Dexron-III(H) mix in their transmission and finds a normal wear pattern, no shift issues, and changes their fluid frequently, how would a Lubegard/Dexron-III(H) mixture cause long-term durability problems in their transmissions? In addition, Aamco and Cottman’s both warranty their transmissions for the lifetime of your vehicle ownership, with yearly fluid changes using the Lubegard/Dexron-III(H) mix. All of the reputable transmission shops in my area and many of the ATRA member shops use Lubegard fluid converters as well, and they have experienced no issues with excessive component wear or shudder problems with frequent fluid changes.

TIA.

 

[unDummy]

It won't cause durability problems.
Some so-called issues are over-hyped on the internet. This is one of them(impending doom without using OEM fluids)

For everyone that claims that lubegard/dexron killed the transmission, I'll show you 100 that died with OEM fluids.
Garbage OEM transmissions. lame maintenance, abusive owners, overheating(very common), or garbage rebuilds(discount transmission shops), WILL kill ANY transmission regardless of the fluid.
Fluid is a scapegoat for the above.

 

[Pablo]

A dead transmission does not equal a "bad" fluid.

I agree with unDummy. The times I remember LubeGard "not performing" are AFTER the transmission is already acting up and the product is added in hopes of a "cure".

We have already seen there is simply not a huge difference between the proprietary ATF's. We have seen that these minor differences are easily overcome with a high quality base oil and proper add pack.

I highly doubt the issue is long term fluid longevity, unless people add it to an inferior base stock and expect synthetic longevity. (Does LubeGard promise this?)

I always wonder what would happen when I put the Amsoil ATF in the Odyssey and is performing perfectly as expected, then I add the LubeGard Black Z-1??? (I would suck if suddenly it started slipping or something)

I had Amsoil ATF in my old Volvo turbo before I wanted a 5 speed (and swapped transmissions) - I put LubeGard Red in that one - didn't seem to make any difference.

 

[LargeCarMan]

Don't get G-Man and Gary going

My personal opinion is to use a quality synthetic ATF+4 or Redlines C+ in these transmissions. Lubegard markets the additives to shops so they don't have to multi-stock ATF's.

I will spend a LITTLE more for Redline or Valvolines synthetic oils...Redlines my choice, instead of adding lubeguard to improve/convert Dex III.

 

[Gary Allan]

 

[G-MAN]

The whole LubeGard issue would make more sense to me if Chrysler transmissions didn't function fine using the correct fluid, or if the correct fluid wasn't available. Since they do, and it is, I can't understand why anyone would purposely put in the WRONG fluid and doctor it up with an additive in the hopes of turning the WRONG fluid into a fluid that will perform like the CORRECT fluid, which is just as readily available as the WRONG fluid.

 

[The Critic]

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We have already seen there is simply not a huge difference between the proprietary ATF's. We have seen that these minor differences are easily overcome with a high quality base oil and proper add pack.

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I met a guy on AcuraZine who has done two drain and refills with Redline High-Temperature ATF on his 2004 Acura TL. He did his first drain and refill at 13,000 miles, and his second one 10,000 miles later, if I recall correctly. The Redline High-Temperature ATF is a Dexron-III/Mercon type fluid, carry a viscosity of 10.0 cst at 100C!

Ironically, Comptech recommends all Honda/Acura transmissions to use Redline High-Temperature ATF for maximum transmission longevity, yet Hondas require the Z1 fluid and Redline High-Temperature ATF is only Dexron-III/Mercon rated. Interestingly, Comptech has yet to have any complaints with regards to shifting problems associated with using Redline High-Temperature ATF in place of Honda Z1.

I think someone at Redline doesn’t know what Honda Z1 is….

quote:

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I highly doubt the issue is long term fluid longevity, unless people add it to an inferior base stock and expect synthetic longevity. (Does LubeGard promise this?)

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My concern is long-term transmission wear, rather than fluid longevity/durability, as I plan to change the fluid at least every 20,000 miles. Lubegard’s recommendation is to travel no more than 50,000 miles between a partial or complete fluid change.

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I always wonder what would happen when I put the Amsoil ATF in the Odyssey and is performing perfectly as expected, then I add the LubeGard Black Z-1??? (I would suck if suddenly it started slipping or something)

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It may not cause any problems, but I wouldn’t take the risk. However, a few people have experienced slightly firmer shifts with Amsoil ATF in comparison to Honda Z1, but it is only noticeable upon rapid acceleration on WOT.

As a side note, Tim Holt, who builds DTT transmissions I believe, says about 15% of his customers running Amsoil ATF in place of ATF+4 in the modified transmissions have had shudder problems, resulting in the need for Lubegard.

quote:

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The whole LubeGard issue would make more sense to me if Chrysler transmissions didn't function fine using the correct fluid, or if the correct fluid wasn't available. Since they do, and it is, I can't understand why anyone would purposely put in the WRONG fluid and doctor it up with an additive in the hopes of turning the WRONG fluid into a fluid that will perform like the CORRECT fluid, which is just as readily available as the WRONG fluid.

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I agree with you. However, if one changes their fluid very frequently, and a used oil analysis of the Lubegard/Dexron-III mix does not show abnormal wear, and the driver does not experience abnormal shift feel, then why should one spend 3x the money for Mopar ATF+4 with yearly fluid changes?

For example, I have seen no Valvoline ATF+4 or Mobil 1 ATF where I live. Mopar ATF+4 is $30-$32/gal plus tax from all local dealers. A Lubegard/Dexron-III mix generated from Chevron Dexron-III costs about $2.75/qt.