why spin-on ATF filters are rare?

[friendly_jacek]

Sorry, if this was asked before (the search doesn't seem to work here) but why almost every 4-cycle engine has easily serviceable, external oil filter (except for old VW and small engines that have no filter), yet most auto transmissions have hard to reach, internal ATF filters. The only car I had with external, spin on ATF filter, was Subaru.

 

[stockrex]

not true mu dmax transmission has a spin on filter nearly the size of the oil filter in my ridgeline :-(

 

[bdcardinal]

because the manufacturers hate people....

in all seriousness it probably does not fit whatever engineering spec they require. i know some of the older Saturns have the spin on trans filters.

one thing i can think of that they can be bad is unknowing lube techs thinking its the engine filter. i say that because when i worked at sears one of the new techs did that, which snowballed into the assistant manager not listening to me pointing out that he was refilling the front diff instead of the trans. at which point i sat back with the owner of the car and laughed.

 

[Jim Allen]

Saves money for the OE mfr. If they think the car can make it out of warranty without it, why install one. If cars had auto trans filters of a significant filtration capacity, auto trans would probably last about forever in normal use. They practically do that now most of the time.

 

[SuperDave456]

I too think it has to do with Lube techs.
Typically they grab the first thing that looks like a filter and drain plug and see what comes out.

When you have a guy working 8-10 hours in a pit at Jiffy Oil pulling filters and oil plugs all day long. They all start to look the same.
I was that guy in High School. However, I did stop and ask "What is this?" whenever something different came along.
It prevented me from getting in trouble and got me promoted a few times during my stay there at the Rip-Off Station.

I have also seen people fill their windshield washer fluid with antifreeze and people pour oil in their coolant resivroir.

People cant drive anymore, what makes you think they can take care of their car? How many actually keep a car past 80,000 miles?

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Saves money for the OE mfr. If they think the car can make it out of warranty without it, why install one. If cars had auto trans filters of a significant filtration capacity, auto trans would probably last about forever in normal use. They practically do that now most of the time.


Exactly.

 

[exranger06]

Why would they do that? So you can service them easily? Don't you know, all transmissions are sealed for life and don't need to be serviced!

 

[MONKEYMAN]

I will miss that feature when I get rid of my 99 SL2. It is so much easier. I doubt I will find a future car so easy to work on myself. I need all the help I can get.

 

[thrace]

Quote:
If cars had auto trans filters of a significant filtration capacity, auto trans would probably last about forever in normal use. They practically do that now most of the time.
Wish they did. My Honda 5 spd auto transmission failed near 70k miles. Slipped in third gear. Changed ATF every 10k miles and did not tow. Used to be engines and transmissions often lasted until the owner got tired of the car. Now the transmission fails early.

 

[bluestream]

I think the cost is the biggest issue. If that cost $10 to add to a transmission, multiply that by millions of vehicles sold. Also, it's not an essential item, and I don't think they want owners messing around with the fluid. They will put in the wrong kind, or add too little, or screw something up. Then they blame the MFGR

 

[sunfire]

Probably high cost of maintenance. Oil filters won't last over 10K miles.

 

[wafrederick1]

Chrysler has two of them inside the valve body area of the transmission that replaced the 727 and 904.There is a spin on filter and one that slides on or bolted on.

 

[Donald]

Its cost but also a competitive advantage. If I can make a car that needs no service for say 100K miles I can hawk that in my ads and get more sales. How many buyers will figure out that if they did some service at 50K miles it would make the cars last a whole lot longer.

 

[Audi Junkie]

The 1991 Audi 100S has one.

 

[Jim Allen]

The way things are, you find them either on car/trucks with a high pedigree, where the manufactuer does whats right (and you pay, of course), or it's because they found in testing that the trans will die an early death if they don't. The trick, I guess, is to determine the difference.

In any case, we gearheads have options. I just got the latest test back from my Ford F-150. The ATF went from a 17/16/13 ISO code (it was a fairly fresh change too and only 15K on the truck) to a 13/12/9 in 2,200 miles with an external filter. The virgin ATF outta the bottle was 16/15/13. In another truck with another style of filter and 140K miles, it went down from 16/15/13 to 15/14/11 in just 423 miles.

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: sunfire
Probably high cost of maintenance. Oil filters won't last over 10K miles.


Why??

 

[sunfire]

Originally Posted By: deeter16317
Originally Posted By: sunfire
Probably high cost of maintenance. Oil filters won't last over 10K miles.


Why??


Just one less thing you the owner will have shell out money to maintain or have to worry about... lower cost of maintenance. For example my 05 Corolla does not have a fuel filter and uses a screen ATF filter which probably never needs to be placed. Toyota must feel their transmissions will manage fine with just a screen filter and regular ATF drain fills.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: sunfire


Just one less thing you the owner will have shell out money to maintain or have to worry about... lower cost of maintenance. For example my 05 Corolla does not have a fuel filter and uses a screen ATF filter which probably never needs to be placed. Toyota must feel their transmissions will manage fine with just a screen filter and regular ATF drain fills.


The reason I started the thread was that I just did a pan drop in 03 corolla with 60000 miles and there was a lot of fine debris in the filter and the pan. One drain and fill ATF change at 30000. I cleaned the filter, but it would be better off to replace it. Did you service your transmission yet?

 

[KLowD9x]

Originally Posted By: sunfire
Originally Posted By: deeter16317
Originally Posted By: sunfire
Probably high cost of maintenance. Oil filters won't last over 10K miles.


Why??


Just one less thing you the owner will have shell out money to maintain or have to worry about... lower cost of maintenance. For example my 05 Corolla does not have a fuel filter and uses a screen ATF filter which probably never needs to be placed. Toyota must feel their transmissions will manage fine with just a screen filter and regular ATF drain fills.


If Toyota is still using the Aisin Warner transaxles, then yes, they will be just fine. My 93 850 has an Aisin Warner transaxle with no filter (just a magnet in the dain plug, AFIAK) and it has lasted a LONG time.

 

[sunfire]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: sunfire


Just one less thing you the owner will have shell out money to maintain or have to worry about... lower cost of maintenance. For example my 05 Corolla does not have a fuel filter and uses a screen ATF filter which probably never needs to be placed. Toyota must feel their transmissions will manage fine with just a screen filter and regular ATF drain fills.


The reason I started the thread was that I just did a pan drop in 03 corolla with 60000 miles and there was a lot of fine debris in the filter and the pan. One drain and fill ATF change at 30000. I cleaned the filter, but it would be better off to replace it. Did you service your transmission yet?


First, drain fill at 40.6K miles with T-IV. Second, drain fill 43.2K with PZ Multi Vehicle. And last weekend at 46.7K again with PZ Multi Vehicle. Drained about 4.5 qts each time.

The first drain fill had a thin film of sludge settled at the bottom of the pan. The screen filter still seems to be in good condition I just wiped off the metal shavings. Wiped the pan clean. Cleaned the magnets. Needlessly spent $25 on a new ATF pan gasket the first drain fill. Also reset the ECU each time.

I definitely noticed this second fill of PZMV makes the transmission shift different. Its a bit more tight and responsive. May sound strange but it feels like the transmission is better at delivering power from the engine to the wheels. It seems to have dampened the sounds from the engine... engine is not as laud. Still getting used to the new feel of the transmission and shifting.