Why so many unacceptable espressos?

[Pablo]

From indie shops?

Lousy beans? Untrained barristas? Combination?

We live and travel in the land of coffee. I can make a good cup at home.

Does no one order straight shots anymore?

You can hide anything in enough sugar flavor and cream is my thought

 

[Zee09]

Did you post this for @GON

 

[Pablo]

Did you post this for @GON

He drinks fufu water

 

[DCDG]

I prefer home brew hot or cold this summer I been doing many cold brews. I prefer coffee black no sweetener but when I get a licking for flavor this has wet the palate nicely. I use a small immersion mixer to froth up some body and it leaves a little foam on the stache*.

https://www.goodnes.com/natural-bliss/products/brown-sugar-flavored-oat-creamer-32oz/

 

[gman2304]

Years ago I walked into a Starbucks and told the ‘Barrista’ I would like a straight up cup of unadulterated coffee. She looked at me as if I had questioned her mothers blood line. She finally brought me an OK cup of coffee so I gave her the $4 and left, never to return.

 

[DCDG]

24 hrs from now will be goodness.

 

[Pablo]

Actually I’ve had decent straight shots at Starbucks mostly if they use their Italian roast. This isn’t about Starbucks it’s about independent shops who should be proud of of a good extraction. Not about perc or drip

Maybe the question is not being understood

 

[john_pifer]

Years ago I walked into a Starbucks and told the ‘Barrista’ I would like a straight up cup of unadulterated coffee. She looked at me as if I had questioned her mothers blood line. She finally brought me an OK cup of coffee so I gave her the $4 and left, never to return.

I mean, from your description of the encounter, it sounds like you sorta went in with a frown and an attitude, so I’m not surprised she looked at you like you were a weirdo.

Starbucks is definitely (still today even) solidly a 2nd Wave coffee shop, meaning that they serve dark roast, which is not my preference these days.

However, back in the dark ages of coffee in Tennessee before the rise of 3rd Wave, light roast specialty coffee (2000’s - early 2010’s) in Tennessee, Starbucks was the almost the only game in town if you wanted to go to a sit-down coffee shop that offered freshly roasted drip and espresso.

And I’ll even allow that, as a black, drip coffee fanatic, they were better back then, sometimes even offering 3 different varieties or origins of drip coffee on tap (e.g. Italian, Verona, Sumatra, etc) simultaneously.

They’d even usually even have drip available until 8 or 9 pm, which is unusual even today.

Then, corporate greed took over and they stopped doing that and went to primarily “Pike Place Roast”, which, to my knowledge, is their primary offering today. And it’s freaking terrible. Just, harsh and nasty.

I will say, some of the degradation of their drip coffee offerings can be blamed on the fact that VERY few people go to Charbux anymore for straight, black, coffee.

To the vast majority of people today, especially women, “going to get coffee” means a sickly sweet, cream-filled, often cold or frozen, slightly coffee-flavored milkshake.

 

[john_pifer]

From indie shops?

Lousy beans? Untrained barristas? Combination?

We live and travel in the land of coffee. I can make a good cup at home.

Does no one order straight shots anymore?

You can hide anything in enough sugar flavor and cream is my thought

Well, in past posts, you’ve said that you hate “acidic coffee”.

Especially in the last 10 years, coffee has shifted. Theres been a widespread acknowledgement that roasting beans dark obscures the flavors of the varietal and the origin, leaving only the taste of the roast (caramelly, nutty, chocolatey, maybe a hint of dried fruit).

You also like to drink flavored coffee.

Most specialty coffee shops now are focusing on high-quality light roast, which usually means beans that are grown at high elevation. High-grown beans will be denser, which is going to mean a brighter, acidity-forward flavor profile.

To me and a lot of other people, the acidity is what makes the flavor of the coffee interesting.

It’s similar to fruit. What makes a piece of fruit “juicy” is the combination of the tartness (which comes from acidity) and the sweetness from the natural sugar.

It’s the same with light roast coffee. Many people, myself included, like a “juicy” coffee. While there’s no sugar present in brewed coffee, there are compounds that emulate sweetness, and of course some coffees are sweeter than others. But coffees that are “juicy” - that is, which offer a pleasant combination of acidity (tartness) and the perception of sweetness, tend to be the most sought-after beans in the world.

Anyway, knowing that you prefer beans like Brazilian (low-grown) that are more chocolatey, nutty, caramelly, it’s possible that these shops are simply serving lighter roasted beans that you’re just not a fan of.

Maybe seek out a more 2nd Wave focused Indy shop that roasts darker.

 

[Pablo]

I mean, from your description of the encounter, it sounds like you sorta went in with a frown and an attitude, so I’m not surprised she looked at you like you were a weirdo.

Starbucks is definitely (still today even) solidly a 2nd Wave coffee shop, meaning that they serve dark roast, which is not my preference these days.

However, back in the dark ages of coffee in Tennessee before the rise of 3rd Wave, light roast specialty coffee (2000’s - early 2010’s) in Tennessee, Starbucks was the almost the only game in town if you wanted to go to a sit-down coffee shop that offered freshly roasted drip and espresso.

And I’ll even allow that, as a black, drip coffee fanatic, they were better back then, sometimes even offering 3 different varieties or origins of drip coffee on tap (e.g. Italian, Verona, Sumatra, etc) simultaneously.

They’d even usually even have drip available until 8 or 9 pm, which is unusual even today.

Then, corporate greed took over and they stopped doing that and went to primarily “Pike Place Roast”, which, to my knowledge, is their primary offering today. And it’s freaking terrible. Just, harsh and nasty.

I will say, some of the degradation of their drip coffee offerings can be blamed on the fact that VERY few people go to Charbux anymore for straight, black, coffee.

To the vast majority of people today, especially women, “going to get coffee” means a sickly sweet, cream-filled, often cold or frozen, slightly coffee-flavored milkshake.

I agree - but I am not really knowledgeable of these waves. I largely ignored coffee for years, many years and drank Chinese green teas for my caffeine 2000-2020. Before that I had no use for caffeine or coffee drinks.

So you are basically agreeing these shops have such terrible espresso shots because can get away with terrible extractions, lousy beans, etc because they are just covered up. Seems logical.

Give me a straight shot and I will tell you about your coffee shot.

Well, in past posts, you’ve said that you hate “acidic coffee”.

Especially in the last 10 years, coffee has shifted. Theres been a widespread acknowledgement that roasting beans dark obscures the flavors of the varietal and the origin, leaving only the taste of the roast (caramelly, nutty, chocolatey, maybe a hint of dried fruit).

You also like to drink flavored coffee.

Most specialty coffee shops now are focusing on high-quality light roast, which usually means beans that are grown at high elevation. High-grown beans will be denser, which is going to mean a brighter, acidity-forward flavor profile.

To me and a lot of other people, the acidity is what makes the flavor of the coffee interesting.

It’s similar to fruit. What makes a piece of fruit “juicy” is the combination of the tartness (which comes from acidity) and the sweetness from the natural sugar.

It’s the same with light roast coffee. Many people, myself included, like a “juicy” coffee. While there’s no sugar present in brewed coffee, there are compounds that emulate sweetness, and of course some coffees are sweeter than others. But coffees that are “juicy” - that is, which offer a pleasant combination of acidity (tartness) and the perception of sweetness, tend to be the most sought-after beans in the world.

Anyway, knowing that you prefer beans like Brazilian (low-grown) that are more chocolatey, nutty, caramelly, it’s possible that these shops are simply serving lighter roasted beans that you’re just not a fan of.

Maybe seek out a more 2nd Wave focused Indy shop that roasts darker.

I like some acid for flavor, not harsh nasty

I don't drink flavored coffee? I have sometimes added chocolate (via cacao powder).

 

[john_pifer]

I agree - but I am not really knowledgeable of these waves. I largely ignored coffee for years, many years and drank Chinese green teas for my caffeine 2000-2020. Before that I had no use for caffeine or coffee drinks.

So you are basically agreeing these shops have such terrible espresso shots because can get away with terrible extractions, lousy beans, etc because they are just covered up. Seems logical.

Give me a straight shot and I will tell you about your coffee shot.


I like some acid for flavor, not harsh nasty

I don't drink flavored coffee? I have sometimes added chocolate.

If adding chocolate is not flavoring, what do you call it?

 

[DCDG]

My taste buds must be very bland for Java.

 

[Owen Lucas]

Lousy beans? Untrained barristas? Combination?

Maybe being served in paper plastic/cups is an issue?

I'm not a supertaster but I'm certain I can taste the paper sometimes.

 

[Pablo]

If adding chocolate is not flavoring, what do you call it?

I mean cacao powder for anti-oxidants, and sometimes Ceylon cinnamon, but those are exceptions for health benefits along with the health benefit of coffee itself. What I am saying is I don't like "flavored coffee drinks" I guess (caramel juice, fake vanilla, pistachio, etc) .

I have decent taste buds ("super taster" border line). I actually appreciate bitter in certain things, and I know a fruit without acid can be almost tasteless (think papaya and lime). This really isn't an acid thing, it's oxidized, over extraction of borderline beans.

I had only a single bad espresso (cafe) my whole time in Italy. At the train station in Napoli. And I swear the guy made a bad pull on purpose because my poor Italian language skills. Mostly I was drinking lungos. No problem there.

I know what you are saying about lighter roasts, one of the reasons I blend my own, dark and light.

This isn't a flavor thing. We could stand next to each other, order the same drink, double shot, even a machiatto if you like and I would think, something off, single flavor at best, zero complexity. With a hint of oxidation. I honestly think some indie shops have been forced to cheap out and 95% of the tourists passing through have no idea.

 

[john_pifer]

I mean cacao powder for anti-oxidants, and sometimes Ceylon cinnamon, but those are exceptions for health benefits along with the health benefit of coffee itself. What I am saying is I don't like "flavored coffee drinks" I guess (caramel juice, fake vanilla, pistachio, etc) .

I have decent taste buds ("super taster" border line). I actually appreciate bitter in certain things, and I know a fruit without acid can be almost tasteless (think papaya and lime). This really isn't an acid thing, it's oxidized, over extraction of borderline beans.

I had only a single bad espresso (cafe) my whole time in Italy. At the train station in Napoli. And I swear the guy made a bad pull on purpose because my poor Italian language skills. Mostly I was drinking lungos. No problem there.

I know what you are saying about lighter roasts, one of the reasons I blend my own, dark and light.

This isn't a flavor thing. We could stand next to each other, order the same drink, double shot, even a machiatto if you like and I would think, something off, single flavor at best, zero complexity. With a hint of oxidation. I honestly think some indie shops have been forced to cheap out and 95% of the tourists passing through have no idea.

I hear ya.

We can definitely agree that overextraction/astringency and harshness is no bueno.

 

[ripcord]

I for one, do not favor the "modern," "third wave" coffee trend of sour, grassy, roasted barely out of first crack espresso I get in many trendy coffee shops today. Espresso beans should be roasted medium dark. Not to a greasy French roast, for sure, but the classic Italian espresso roast is best.

In recent years, the best espresso I've been served was at a tourist location in Leavenworth, WA where they weighed every gram of ground coffee, had a digital tamping scale, and weighed every shot as it was pulled. They were gone the next year. The second best was made by a 15 year old girl at a thrift store in nowhere-ville Montana where they had a $10k espresso machine.

 

[ls1mike]

From indie shops?

Lousy beans? Untrained barristas? Combination?

We live and travel in the land of coffee. I can make a good cup at home.

Does no one order straight shots anymore?

You can hide anything in enough sugar flavor and cream is my thought

There are a few good ones in the area, but I think they are trying to out "roast" each other kind of like the breweries here are trying to out "IPA" each. I hate both. I will get Starbucks even though I find it a bit bitter, but it is consistent. There is local joint that was a normal stand that went "adultish". There coffee is still the best in around my area. The kept the same product when they switched owners and "themes"

 

[SC Maintenance]

I have been to many Indy places and it seems most everything sucks not just espresso. There have been a couple exceptions but not many.

Why, who knows. Does seem odd.

Guess that’s why Starbucks took off?

 

[Geekhead]

Well, in past posts, you’ve said that you hate “acidic coffee”.

Especially in the last 10 years, coffee has shifted. Theres been a widespread acknowledgement that roasting beans dark obscures the flavors of the varietal and the origin, leaving only the taste of the roast (caramelly, nutty, chocolatey, maybe a hint of dried fruit).

You also like to drink flavored coffee.

Most specialty coffee shops now are focusing on high-quality light roast, which usually means beans that are grown at high elevation. High-grown beans will be denser, which is going to mean a brighter, acidity-forward flavor profile.

To me and a lot of other people, the acidity is what makes the flavor of the coffee interesting.

It’s similar to fruit. What makes a piece of fruit “juicy” is the combination of the tartness (which comes from acidity) and the sweetness from the natural sugar.

It’s the same with light roast coffee. Many people, myself included, like a “juicy” coffee. While there’s no sugar present in brewed coffee, there are compounds that emulate sweetness, and of course some coffees are sweeter than others. But coffees that are “juicy” - that is, which offer a pleasant combination of acidity (tartness) and the perception of sweetness, tend to be the most sought-after beans in the world.

Anyway, knowing that you prefer beans like Brazilian (low-grown) that are more chocolatey, nutty, caramelly, it’s possible that these shops are simply serving lighter roasted beans that you’re just not a fan of.

Maybe seek out a more 2nd Wave focused Indy shop that roasts darker.

Decent Costa Rican beans do the job for me

 

[RooflessVW]

Years ago I walked into a Starbucks and told the ‘Barrista’ I would like a straight up cup of unadulterated coffee. She looked at me as if I had questioned her mothers blood line. She finally brought me an OK cup of coffee so I gave her the $4 and left, never to return.

This is such a ridiculous copy-pasta.

You can go to any Starbucks and order a black coffee and you'll get exactly that, with a smile.