Why rotate and balance tires?

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I see some advice that I feel to be bad here.

Most street cars have severe understeer built into them.

The best tires should ALWAYS go in the front.
 
Hmm, MA, when I worked as a mechanic the rule was always put the best (either in terms of quality or tread depth or whatever) tires in the front because the fronts take the bulk of the wear and account for more of the traction in most street cars.

Of course conventional wisdom, even among mechanics, can be wrong so if you can point out reputable sources (like the manuf. websites themselves) that would settle this debate.
 
 
Ok, it looks like the resoning behind putting the better tires on the rear is basically summed up by this:

If the tires hydroplane you want the front tires to hydroplane first so that the driver will feel the onset of hydroplaning through the steering wheel...and this will give the driver some warning to slow down.

If the worn tires on the rear the driver may not be aware that hydroplaning is happening until the vehicle is skidding and then it may be too late.

For my driving style and car type (2000 Camry) I feel that there is enough understeer built into the car that you can't increase the traction in the front too much.

I think the reasoning behind this is the same as the reasoning behind why cars are manufactured with so much understeer built into them: because for an average driver, it's more predictable and correctable than oversteer.

As a guy who likes to drive "spiritedly" I will continue totry to make sure my front tires are the ones with the most traction.

As an aside, I have a TRD Rear Sway Bar on "track" setting in my Camry and let me tell you, driving a car that can get loose is a BLAST!

Anyway, Master ACiD, great post. Lots of information in there. Thanks for taking the effort.
 
I'd like to see measured strait-line braking in snow with the same 4 mis-matched tires mounted differently. No doubt the deep tread on front stops shorter. Let's assume we are not idiots and can keep our car going strait...talk about over-thinking a problem, that's what has happened here. We should also consider older tires to be inferior due to rubber hardening, blow-out potential, and tread design. Do we want a blow-out in front or rear? More tread protects from blow-out due to road hazards. Let me see, junk bald tires on front and top-of-the line, state-of-the-art new tires on rear (on FWD) Yeaaaaaaaaa!!! RIGHT! I wonder how many people are killed/injured from this lousy recommendation?
 
This isn't even a debate if the alignment is maintained, the tires rotated regularly and all 4 tires wear at the same rate with all 4 replaced at the same time. Nothing makes a bigger improvement than 4 brand new tires!!
 
Audi;

You have to keep in mind that the tire manufacturer doesn't know what car you are driving, your skill level, preference for over/understeer etc. So their recommendations are going to be for the lowest common denominator - reinforce the car's tendency to understeer rather than oversteer.

From a liability standpoint it makes more sense. An inexperienced or impaired driver can help an understeer situation by simply taking foot off gas or gently braking (weight shifts forward and helps front tires get their grip again). Inexperienced or impaired driver will not be able to correct an oversteer.

I'm like Terry Labonte - "Don't give me no loose racecar" - so I'd put my new tires on the back even if it means a loss of drive wheel traction.
 
quote:
PS in my cars, I can't induce the rear to come around no matter how bald the rear tires are.
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yep, same here. lately it's been raining really hard and i've done dumb things (in huge parking lot away from people) like pull the e-brake or trying to 4 wheel drift (in fwd no less) while going at least 60mph and i've had no luck at all.

the rears are pretty much at the wear bars so i'm abusing them until they break.
 
If I recall the research done on different tires front to rear or side to side (which was like 15 years ago), the problem was much more acute when braking in the cornering mode. What I particularly remember about the whole test setup was that the road surface was wet and the coefficient to traction was fairly low, which is what brought out the differences in a rather dramatic fashion.

I would think that if you can't get the test vehicle to skid, then you aren't going to be able to tell anything at all.
 
quote:
Stopping is a non-issue if you can't get moving. Just another bone-headed "suggestion" to sell you more product. I'll take my traction in front, thanks. Upon braking all the weight transfers to the front, what good is the tread on the rears gonna do? I've seen that new recommendation, it's based on a specific panic turn/brake situation with a top-heavy minivan and a retarded driver. Anyone with common sense and experience will put new tires in front.

PS in my cars, I can't induce the rear to come around no matter how bald the rear tires are.
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That means you're not trying hard enough! Does your car have an aftermarket rear sway bar?
 
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quote:
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PS in my cars, I can't induce the rear to come around no matter how bald the rear tires are.
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yep, same here. lately it's been raining really hard and i've done dumb things (in huge parking lot away from people) like pull the e-brake or trying to 4 wheel drift (in fwd no less) while going at least 60mph and i've had no luck at all.

the rears are pretty much at the wear bars so i'm abusing them until they break.
Click to expand...
This is weird. If they're inflated real high and it's wet out, it might work.

Let's say your fronts at 40-45 and you rears at 50+

Talk about abusing your tires!
 
It has sort of been covered but; There are a lot of people on the roads today that have never driven a rear wheel drive car/truck. Especially in slippery conditions. Note; This really is about really slippery conditions. These people may have heard the term "fishtail" BUT they have never experienced the BACK tires sliding "out" due to spinning under power or sliding "out" due to braking in a corner. 4 wheel ABS has made a generation of drivers that don't know how to "steer in the direction of the skid". Many moons ago a "skid" almost always involved the back end sliding out in a corner either under braking or excessive power. Front wheel drive cars don't do that. They may or may not still be told to "steer in the direction of a skid", but when they "lose" the back end in a corner, all they do is BRAKE HARD.
 
I do not rotate the tires on my GS400 (rear wheel drive V8) because they MUST be spin balanced while they are on the car to prevent vibration. It is not worth the time (only one place in my area actually does this and it takes 1/2 a day of my time to get there and wait on the car) and the cost of doing it does not justify the treadwear savings to me.
 
"PS in my cars, I can't induce the rear to come around no matter how bald the rear tires are."

Good luck when you cruise around that long sweeping curve on wet surfaces because your rear will hydroplane in a heartbeat.

I learned this the hard way a few years ago in my Escort. I'd want to understeer on bald front tires rather than oversteer and, ultimately, whip the car into an uncontrolled spin.
 
"yep, same here. lately it's been raining really hard and i've done dumb things (in huge parking lot away from people) like pull the e-brake or trying to 4 wheel drift (in fwd no less) while going at least 60mph and i've had no luck at all."

I drifted at just 10 mph in the wets easily in my two fwds (escort and neon). Heck, I can drift on dry, sticky tarmac but why would I? I'd just put flat spots on the rear tires.

I lol'd at you trying to drift in the wets at speeds over 60 mph. You'd drift and drift then drift some more before crashing into something. If you honestly can't drift at all, you should crash the physics textbook or have your vehicle's handbrake, cables and brakes checked.
 
rolleyes.gif
 
I just had my first bad experience with lower-traction tires on the back than the front.

The side streets around my house are slippery hardpack snow. I have studded winter tires so I drive like it's summer with my car. I guess I'm used to a lot of traction. I had to move my girlfriend's car ('93 MX-6) out of the garage and around the block to the front after changing a belt. Canadian Tire Motomaster SEs on the front, with Co-op brand H-rated touring tires on the back. Both have like-new tread depth. She had the touring tires all around, but wrecked the front ones with bad wheel alignment right around when I first met her. The Motomasters have good lug spacing, smaller blocks, and siping, while the touring tires are what they are: quiet, smooth "all-season" touring tires.

The first corner is fine, and I'm impressed at how well the tires gripped, so I take the next corner a little faster, though certainly still not as fast as I would with my car. There's cars parked on both sides of the street that I'm turning onto, but a few car lengths down. There's noone driving on the street so I'm not concerned; I figure the worst case scenario is some understeer and I just let off, like I've experienced with every other FWD car I've driven. Nope. Front tires grip great and make the 90 degree turn no problem, while the back end whips around (I never touch the brakes while turning, BTW). So I quickly turn the wheel and give it some gas to keep the front end in front and drive sideways down the street for a few car lengths with cars parked on either side. It was controlled, but a little scary after considering the potential for damage there.

So I guess a few lessons for me here. Don't drive like a ******* on public streets (it happens less every year, honest!), don't trust other people's vehicles, Motomaster SE tires aren't too bad in the winter, and use good tires on the back. I think I'll get her to put some SE's on the back too. It sounds like she would like to get some extra rims and dedicated winter tires once she gets some spare cash together, but she should probably at least get her car "balanced" until that happens. The result of this sort of thing happening at higher speeds could be bad.

[ December 21, 2005, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: rpn453 ]
 
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