Why owning a home is so pricey ...

[John105]

Because it came up, I looked up police officer salary in my town. $76k to start, $100,700 after that. Only 2 weeks vacation until 5 years. 12% differential from 6 PM to 7 AM. I'm good with all of the above, and it's considerably lower than the next town over. My guess is since one doesn't have to live where they work, it's harder to get in at the next town over. And when the chief made $600k, it has to be that there was some sort of one time payout, because we're a town of 50,000 people, not San Francisco or Boston or Miami.

The fact of the matter and going back to the subject, owning a home is expensive whether you're a cop, teacher, IT personnel, accountant, lawyer, doctor, etc. I don't think that occupation takes the sting off of the cost.

p.s. before having a family I had a low opinion of public school too. It changed after I had a kid in school, and my wife went to work for the school district. They are responsible for my kid being able to read, perform Singapore math (I think they changed again), and the health care that I have today. I think it's a tough job for 72k.

p.p.s. edit--I read on, there is a pension at 53, 15 more days off in addition to the initial 2 weeks, double pay plus day off for working holidays, all fair. The benefits are traditional, that is, the type I had at my first job. There are a couple of people who are still with the co that I started my career at. They'd get a nice pension, mine is small as I was only there 8 years.

if there is such a thing a p.p.p.s--next town over is $87,100 and $123,800. Even starting that's pretty significant but I'm sure it's harder to get into that department.

 

[Cropduster172]

Because it came up, I looked up police officer salary in my town. $76k to start, $100,700 after that. Only 2 weeks vacation until 5 years. 12% differential from 6 PM to 7 AM. I'm good with all of the above, and it's considerably lower than the next town over. My guess is since one doesn't have to live where they work, it's harder to get in at the next town over. And when the chief made $600k, it has to be that there was some sort of one time payout, because we're a town of 50,000 people, not San Francisco or Boston or Miami.

The fact of the matter and going back to the subject, owning a home is expensive whether you're a cop, teacher, IT personnel, accountant, lawyer, doctor, etc. I don't think that occupation takes the sting off of the cost.

p.s. before having a family I had a low opinion of public school too. It changed after I had a kid in school, and my wife went to work for the school district. They are responsible for my kid being able to read, perform Singapore math (I think they changed again), and the health care that I have today. I think it's a tough job for 72k.

Residency requirements for cops are usually only in the larger cities.
There wouldn't be any eligible candidates for departments in wealthy towns if there were a residency requirement.

 

[Rand]

Here is police salary in my area.
Salary Information: $24.31 - $35.96. Starting hourly wage is dependent on several factors including: OPOTA Certification, Bachelor or Associate Degree in Criminal Justice, prior full-time experience as an Ohio certified peace officer or combination of these factors.

Seems underpaid. 50-75k +OT

I wouldnt want to be a teacher.. so many kids with no parenting nowadays.

 

[GON]

Interesting chart on mortgage rates. 30-year average mortgage interest rate at seven percent. Ouch....

Of note, fed cut of rates- yet 30-year mortgage rates static to rising trend. What gives?

From Amy Nixon:
New Year, Same Rate

Mortgage rates barely budgeted during the last several weeks

And have risen over the last 90 days

During a FED CUTTING CYCLE

How much longer can the housing market withstand this?

 

[John105]

Residency requirements for cops are usually only in the larger cities.
There wouldn't be any eligible candidates for departments in wealthy towns if there were a residency requirement.

I have nothing but respect for the cops in my town. I have never met an unfriendly one except one time--maybe he was having a bad day. I even got pulled over 52 in a 25 and still courteous. When I went to get a DMV form signed so I could get a new license plate for $0 (LEO must sign), the officer shook my hand and stated I'm the only one in his career who has come in with the form, because people seem to like to have illegible license plates (ours delaminated). I think that since there is a reward for longevity, there's a good chance that an officer will stay where they start. Being a dangerous job, I hope each and every officer reaches their retirement and gets to enjoy the results of their work. Cops live among us, have kids at school (my wife knows many), their kids play ice hockey, soccer, etc.

 

[Cropduster172]

I have nothing but respect for the cops in my town. I have never met an unfriendly one except one time--maybe he was having a bad day. I even got pulled over 52 in a 25 and still courteous. When I went to get a DMV form signed so I could get a new license plate for $0 (LEO must sign), the officer shook my hand and stated I'm the only one in his career who has come in with the form, because people seem to like to have illegible license plates (ours delaminated). I think that since there is a reward for longevity, there's a good chance that an officer will stay where they start. Being a dangerous job, I hope each and every officer reaches their retirement and gets to enjoy the results of their work. Cops live among us, have kids at school (my wife knows many), their kids play ice hockey, soccer, etc.

I graduated the NJSP Academy, Sea Girt. Worked for the State for years. Most NJ Municipal departments pay better than the State... that's not changed. Generally speaking, Northern NJ towns paid better than South NJ towns as well.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Public education is far more broken than law enforcement, that much is certain.

My kids went to public schools and did fine. They got academic scholarships to go to college. They showed up ready to learn every day. We made sure they did. Most teachers are very good people. If the kids are too stupid to take advantage of that, then they deserve to fail.

The only thing for certain is the people at the bottom of both professions probably make too little. Same is true everywhere.

 

[Cropduster172]

My kids went to public schools and did fine. They got academic scholarships to go to college. They showed up ready to learn every day. We made sure they did. Most teachers are very good people. If the kids are too stupid to take advantage of that, then they deserve to fail.

The only thing for certain is the people at the bottom of both professions probably make too little. Same is true everywhere.

Our kids did fine with public schools too. My daughter went on to graduate Ivy League dental school and does extremely well. My son does just fine too. But I also see the school system they attended dropped dramatically in the overall ratings since then. I do know that school system budget referendums have been crushed by voters there in recent years. The common thread seems to be top heavy administration over competent, better paid teachers.

 

[IndyIan]

Because your wrong. And its offensive to teachers. I didn't even have to look it up to know you were wrong, but for your benefit I did.

In Massapequa school district ALL of the people making over $100K are not teachers. See the list.

In fact, the average teacher pay is $69,269, and half of those people have a masters or higher.

And while they might get 8 or 9 weeks of time off in the summer, they are required to do continuing ed (why do you think all those teachers have masters degrees), they have to do lesson planning and grading on their own time and are required to come for parent nights and several other extra curricular events. Unlike police they don't get overtime (I in no way am inferring police shouldn't, I am inferring teachers should). To add insult to injury, a lot of teachers would be well below the minimum federal salary required to be an exempt employee - $58,656 - but our benevolent federal government wrote an exclusion so they did not have to be paid that and can still be exempt.

Why anyone would be a teacher in this country alludes me, including why my wife does it.

Anyone in Massapequa county complaining there taxes are too high because teachers get paid too much, should go apply for the job. If the last more than 1 day they will have done better than I ever would.

I will say however there average class size seems very small. Maybe they have too many? That, again, would be a management problem, not a teacher problem.

https://www.longislandschools.com/districts/massapequa-school-district.html

View attachment 257577

Pretty high turn over rate for teachers there at almost 10%. In Ontario the province funds school boards, and each board gets about the same $ per student, so the teacher unions are province wide and they get paid roughly the same in each board.
I assume the places with high municipal tax don't have high state income taxes? I think the average house property tax in Ontario would be between $2-5k, but our provincial income tax in about half our federal income tax, and most of the provincial budget is to provide education and the Ontario health insurance plan, and hospitals, then roads.

Even here where teachers top out at $110-115k in 8-10 years, they are having a hard time keeping them as the vast majority of them could make that money doing something else that is less demanding and easier. High school teachers teaching academic stream courses, do have it pretty good, as those kids have little behavior issues, but the rest are dealing with the behaviours from all sorts of poor parenting decisions and situations, almost all day, every day.
I tried it, and I couldn't do it 5 days a week to be honest. A lot of factors, 2-3 hours of prep every night was tough, but mostly it was seeing some of these kids come from terrible home life everyday was just too sad and frustrating for me to deal with. It was rewarding to try to make school the best part of their day, but I knew I couldn't do this long term.
After that though, anything but roofing, or being a mechanic, seems pretty easy!

 

[alarmguy]

From Chuck Cowan earlier today:

US housing affordability is a crisis:

The median annual house payment as % of median income has hit 39.4%, the most since the 1980s.

The rate has skyrocketed by 14 percentage points since 2020 and has surpassed the 2006 Housing Bubble peak of 38.1%.

It is now only below the 47.5% record set in 1981 when mortgage rates were as high as 18%.

Meanwhile, the average rate on a 30-year mortgage has risen by 100 basis points since September, to 7.1%, near the highest since July.

Buying a house has rarely ever been so expensive.
View attachment 257621

Nice. The chart points out the variations over time. Some limited amount of young people do not know a home cost 20% more of their income to buy 44 years ago in 1981 and the cost today is the same 18 years ago in 2006. So here we are again, leveling out and at a level that is 20% less than in 1981. Really nothing unusual here. Peaks and Valleys.
But the bottom line in a free market is the prices are no different than what the public can pay so if you cant buy a home, examine what you are doing wrong.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Pretty high turn over rate for teachers there at almost 10%. I

10% is actually pretty low for the US. I think average is in 15-20% depending on what study.

Half of teachers leave the profession completely in the first 3 years. Thats a fair bit of it.

If you stay in a school district they start to feel like you don't want to move, so they take advantage of you. They give you the bad kids, or the largest class size, or they make you teach a subject no one wants to teach, because they figure your not going to quit.

I live in an area with 3 different counties with different districts. Last year one district was way short on teachers, so they offered a $5K hiring bonus. A bunch of teachers from our district left. I told my wife to go, but her commute would have been longer than she wanted. Depends on where in the county you live.

Pay varies a little from district to district but not much. Most pay scales are driven by years experience and education, so you loose very little by jumping around.

 

[MrGraybeard]

A big part of the tax burden in a lot of states is public-sector pensions. Historically, public-sector workers sacrificed salary for stability and pension. Problem is, people are living longer than they used to, so states and municipalities are getting upside down, spending increasing amounts on workers who have retired. It's the same issue Social Security faces.

Housing prices have gotten out of hand because interest on debt has been so cheap for so long, starting in the Bush-Cheney administration. That was a big factor in the 2008-'09 economic crisis. The government slashed interest rates further as an emergency measure, but it became an economic crutch. What we're seeing now is the withdrawal from that addiction. It's painful, for sure.

 

[John105]

Our kids did fine with public schools too. My daughter went on to graduate Ivy League dental school and does extremely well. My son does just fine too. But I also see the school system they attended dropped dramatically in the overall ratings since then. I do know that school system budget referendums have been crushed by voters there in recent years. The common thread seems to be top heavy administration over competent, better paid teachers.

All three of our dentists going back to 1999 are Penn Dental. Many don’t care but I’d like to think at least they were the above average students with above average residencies. Just saw a medical dr, Penn Harvard and Brigham and Women’s. I do check creds and again feel at least they were likely the above average in their schools and field.

If you are referring to US News as a ranking, I see a lot of variation so not sure how valid. One year a school is ranked 500. Next year 1,400. Next year 600. Imho that doesn’t make common sense. Sounds like consumer Reports. I won’t deny I’d prefer a school to be 200 or less, but just because it’s not the case based on their rating, should I care…

Even new cars. How many are spending 100%+ on a new car? I thought it used to be 25% tops and finance 36 mos. With this criteria, who can even get a Chevy Suburban?

 

[Cropduster172]

All three of our dentists going back to 1999 are Penn Dental. Many don’t care but I’d like to think at least they were the above average students with above average residencies. Just saw a medical dr, Penn Harvard and Brigham and Women’s. I do check creds and again feel at least they were likely the above average in their schools and field.

If you are referring to US News as a ranking, I see a lot of variation so not sure how valid. One year a school is ranked 500. Next year 1,400. Next year 600. Imho that doesn’t make common sense. Sounds like consumer Reports. I won’t deny I’d prefer a school to be 200 or less, but just because it’s not the case based on their rating, should I care…

Even new cars. How many are spending 100%+ on a new car? I thought it used to be 25% tops and finance 36 mos. With this criteria, who can even get a Chevy Suburban.

Penn Dental... that's where my kid graduated from.

 

[The motor guy]

I have a tenant that rents a property I own and I sometimes question who came out ahead in the end. She signed a 3 year lease and this final year the expenses have almost caught up to the rent payment.

 

[GON]

From Redfin:
In 2024, a homebuyer needed to earn annual income of at least $116,782 to spend no more than 30% of earnings on monthly housing payments for a median-priced home … record high and >$33k more than typical household makes in a year.

 

[GON]

The 30-year Mortgage Rate in the US ended 2024 at 6.9%, rising for the 4th year in a row. That hasn't happened since 1978-1981.

Government spending will need to decrease (dramatically) if 30 year mortgage rates are going to decrease. Not sure a dramatic decrease in government spending is in the cards. Of note, Apple recently borrowed money at just five basis points at what the US Government currently borrowed money at for the same term. Which means the market views Apple having the same risk of defaulting on a loan as the USG.

 

[alarmguy]

The chart looks cherry, picked as it only goes back 12 years. One has to also consider half the country has prices below the median house price. That is a lot of houses.

Besides the Covid epidemic, government interference, artificially, pushing down mortgage rates has created an environment for inflated house prices. It takes a little while of a pendulum swing for it to correct.

 

[Vil_Riker]

I went and checked the property tax history on my 1st property.

Annual tax in 2006: $962
Annual tax in 2023: $3,783

And this is a low service/more freedom, low property tax state.

 

[MBBW]

Why owning a home is so pricey? Is this a real question?