Pfft. The only thing it will make more efficient is the flow of cash into their pockets.
Why not more hybrids?
- Thread starter grampi
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I don't believe that anyone considers hydrogen as a private transportation solution, I certainly don't, and I'll bet that Toyota doesn't either. I look at the Mirai as more of an engineering exercise and proof of concept. It does work and Toyota has proved it.
I think that hydrogen does show long-term promise for commercial/industrial/manufacturing use as well as fixed location power generation (both large and small scale), as long as it can be produced efficiently and economically without producing more greenhouse gas than it is trying to overcome.
OVERKILL
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Bill Gates is also backing SMR nuclear, he has his hands in many different energy projects. I think he sees a future in hydrogen, based on the current agenda, and I don't think he's wrong to think that. Things are being driven in that direction.
I specifically gave the reference I did for the consumption figures because that was also an ion exchange membrane:
Science DIrect said:
My intent was not to make you feel as though you needed to respond in this manner (grade school science stuff). I'm simply pointing out that even with this sort of advanced electrolysis, the math on the financial side of things isn't encouraging. You need to have insane electricity prices to justify this sort of capital investment, at which point you've already created energy poverty for a large section of the population.
OVERKILL
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The figures I cited are from this process, FYI.
I was never good at math.
What happens if the power source is something like hydroelectric or solar in a very sunny location? Does that change the equation?
OVERKILL
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I included solar in a very sunny location (Texas). If you have access to cheap round-the-clock hydro-electric, I see no benefit in trying to produce hydrogen at home, since you can power the house directly from that source.
The new Toyota Land Cruiser is a great example of why the “packaging” of hybrids will forever be a huge problem. Trying to fit an engine, transmission, electric motor, battery, fuel tank, and electronics into a car is a mess.
The US Spec has no 3rd row, like markets outside the US. Why? There’s a battery in the way. Not only does the battery prohibit a 3rd row, but it also makes the cargo space smaller with a huge raised deck to hide the battery.
25+ years into hybrids and even Toyota can’t even figure out how to package all this without huge compromises. They also didn’t bother to remove the 3rd row cup holders…
The US Spec has no 3rd row, like markets outside the US. Why? There’s a battery in the way. Not only does the battery prohibit a 3rd row, but it also makes the cargo space smaller with a huge raised deck to hide the battery.
25+ years into hybrids and even Toyota can’t even figure out how to package all this without huge compromises. They also didn’t bother to remove the 3rd row cup holders…
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Not sure I follow. Our Camry hybrid seems just fine. But it's a car... not an SUV... and not an SUV attempting to have a third row.
How well does the Sienna package all the parts together?
It's not that at all. It's because they are cheap and lazy (the cup holders prove it). The rear area where the hybrid battery is should be just a hole and the battery would fill in that hole and be a structural member. But instead there is sheet metal there like a normal car and they put the battery inside the cavity. Total waste of space.
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I was thinking of PhEV but I live in Houston Texas and many charging stations are occupied by pickup trucks that park across multiple lanes because Texas. God how I hate this state with a passion... Alas I can't PCS until next year.
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Where are those license plates from?
The Highlander Hybrid, has better packaing of the hybrid powertain, battery and electronics.
The problem with the Land Cruiser, as well as the Sequoia is the body on frame architecture. The ladder frame takes a lot of space, that you can't shove hybrid components into. A unibody construction has the space that Toyota can optimize for hybrid powertrain.
But, a non-hybrid CUV....the Tiguan is just as bad, as the load floor is not level with the tailgate sill. Like the LandCruiser, it's also raised when you shove a 3rd row back there.
Yes, there is better packaging with a unibody, but there’s often still compromises.
For example, the 2023 Camry Hybrid has the same trunk volume as the non-Hybrid (unlike the previous generation). They moved the hybrid battery fully under the rear seats.
But, to achieve this the Hybrid has a smaller fuel tank. The Camry Hybrid also has less passenger volume and less rear passenger headroom vs. non-Hybrid models, because the rear seats are mounted higher to accommodate the battery.
For example, the 2023 Camry Hybrid has the same trunk volume as the non-Hybrid (unlike the previous generation). They moved the hybrid battery fully under the rear seats.
But, to achieve this the Hybrid has a smaller fuel tank. The Camry Hybrid also has less passenger volume and less rear passenger headroom vs. non-Hybrid models, because the rear seats are mounted higher to accommodate the battery.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Also, it is not independent suspension on Seqoia and probably LC.
Chevrolet and Ford have independent suspension on Tahoe or Expedition unlike to their trucks. Not sure why Toyota went that way.
Not to mention the added complexity of the entire hybrid package. Regardless of what model they stick all of it in.
The new Land Cruiser isn't a bougy mall vehicle (buy a Lexus LX for that). Unless an independent suspension and the frame was designed for range of motion for off-roading (like a HMMV), a solid axle provides better articulation for rock crawling, as you have a better chance of both tires per axle maintaining contact with the ground, and even better when there's a sway bar disconnect.
Chevy knows the Tahoe and Expedition are just large people carriers and know they won't tackle anything more serious than a gravel road, so they are building it to their customer base.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Please, it is nothing more than saving money. That suspension is in Sequoia, too, a people mover! Sequoia plays in the same category, or at least it is trying, as Tahoe, Expedition etc. GM and Ford actually invested money in two separate rear suspensions, one for trucks, and another for people movers. Bcs. that suspension and batteries, it has same amount of trunk space as my BMW. And still sucks when it comes to mpg.
Last Sequoia had independent suspension. The whole adventure with this Sequoia, and it seems LC, is just cheap.
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I am not willing to shell out another $5k or so plus electrician fees to install a rapid charger in my home. Who knows if whoever will be purchasing my home will want it? So I will be out $5k for something that I don't need since, there is a reason the infrastructure is being built to provide them on the street. Just because Texas is full of rednecks doesn't necessitate me spending extra $5k for living in arse backwards state.That’s why you charge at home.
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