I think the sales statistics show that EVs are big sellers in certain markets while hybrids have more presence in the rest of the country. I suspect hybrids outsell EVs but the media focus is on EVs of course.
Why not more hybrids?
- Thread starter grampi
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I think the sales statistics show that EVs are big sellers in certain markets while hybrids have more presence in the rest of the country. I suspect hybrids outsell EVs but the media focus is on EVs of course.
Read it again..."will not develop another ICE ENGINE".
And I'm sure those words will be carved in stone until sales numbers start going down the drain...
Research is gaining ground on making Hydrogen production more efficient. Enter Enapter's hydrogen generators.
Novel technology can power your home for days using half the water needed to flush a toilet
Emission-free hydrogen could, one day, entirely replace fossil fuels - and a start up believes it can make it accessible to all.
www.thebrighterside.news
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At least in our area, the utility does the work. Don't know if it's contracted out, or that's part of the service deal for the power in the area. After all, they are a regulated monopoly, so maybe having them work on the street lights is the price they pay to be the local utility.
Of course, YMMV in other areas. Just speculating here, but I do know the local Electric Utility services the street lights.
Research is gaining ground on making Hydrogen production more efficient. Enter Enapter's hydrogen generators.
Novel technology can power your home for days using half the water needed to flush a toilet
Emission-free hydrogen could, one day, entirely replace fossil fuels - and a start up believes it can make it accessible to all.
Thanks for linking that. There is some fascinating things going on there. I like how that can be scaleable.
Pretty much says it all about this pie-in-the-sky EV-only nonsense.
Let the market decide.
Because the extreme left thinks the world will end soon if we don't kill ICEs. How long did Al Gore predict we had left? However long it was, that time came and went a while back. But his movie made $$millions.
Now we have AOC saying we have 22 years left. I just read were she is upset at people for interpreting her doomsday predictions literally. Maybe she really meant to say 122 years.
122 years from now still leaves one in an extremist position today.
I find humor in the fact that the planet has kept decent control of itself for a supposed 4.5B years, and now in less than the span of ~150 years, man has not only ruined it, but even better, will somehow manage to right all its wrongs in less than 15 years!
And yet they haven’t even been able to fix the highways….
What would the market have said about moving away from leaded gasoline, and the inclusion of catalytic convertors and seatbelts?
The biggest issue of removing lead from gasoline was that older cars didn’t have hardened valve seats. The early years of unleaded gasoline and other pollution controls led to streets full of pinging automobiles. They finally figured it out.
Seatbelts save lives. There were the detractors but in the end the belts won out. It was just a step in the evolution of automobile safety.
OVERKILL
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That's just a small scale electrolysis machine, a process that we've been using forever. The reason it is not used to produce the bulk of hydrogen is that methane reformation is much cheaper, and can be powered by the methane also being reformed.Research is gaining ground on making Hydrogen production more efficient. Enter Enapter's hydrogen generators.
Novel technology can power your home for days using half the water needed to flush a toilet
Emission-free hydrogen could, one day, entirely replace fossil fuels - and a start up believes it can make it accessible to all.
The issue will be the operating cost in terms of kWh consumed by the device.
For example, if we look here:
Electrolytic Hydrogen Production - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
www.sciencedirect.com
We can see that power consumption for high efficiency electrolysis is 4.8kWh per uncompressed cubic meter.
Some quick notes:
- 1kg of hydrogen has comparable energy content to 1 gallon (3.2kg) of gasoline (124,884BTU)
- It takes 12.5 cubic meters of hydrogen for 1kg
- To produce 12.5 cubic meters of hydrogen would require 60kWh
A hydrogen fuel cell is ~60% efficient. So, we'd use 60kWh of electricity to produce 36kWh of electricity if we are running it through a hydrogen fuel cell.
This is an extremely lossy process and would only make sense if you could get electricity at insanely low prices.
The viability of this small electrolysis machine is predecated on it being powered by VRE, so you'd have to factor in the price of a massive solar (for example) over-build into the process, as well as a storage medium because a fuel cell can't handle load surges.
You are located in Texas, so you get much better solar exposure than we do. Let's work some of these numbers backwards. We'll say your month electricity consumption is 1,500kWh; 48.4kWh/day. We'll assume all solar output will be converted to hydrogen, which will in turn be consumed by a fuel cell, to run a battery bank (to cover surges) to produce round-the-clock power.
At 60% efficiency for our fuel cell, that means we'll need 81kWh of electricity to produce the ~17 cubic meters of hydrogen we need (ignoring for a moment the losses associated with compressing it). Assuming a 20% capacity factor for our solar, we'd need a ~17kW solar array, ignoring seasonal variance. Factoring in seasonal variance, you are probably looking at 20-25kW. That means a sticker price of $55,000 - $70,000. Then you have your battery bank on top of that, probably another $10K, then the price of your electrolysis machine, let's say $25K, then your fuel cell, we'll use the low cost estimate from here at $35,000. This means a grand total cost of $125,000-$145,000 for "cheap" home electrolysis and hydrogen.
Now, according to this, the average retail rate for electricity in Texas is $0.13/kWh. So, our 1,500kWh/month is $195; $2,340/year. So, it would be 53 to 62 years to break-even based on current retails rates, ignoring interest costs, on this scheme. And this also ignores the lifespan of each of these components, as well as R&M.
It's only if we are using insane California electricity prices of $0.34/kWh that we pad to $0.50/kWh to include delivery and all other fees, you are looking at a payback period of 14 years, something that approaches reasonable, but again doesn't factor in the cost (interest) of borrowing to purchase this system, R&M and other costs.
Good summary Overkill and it shows perfectly well why the prices of gasoline and diesel despite low crude oil prices has to be kept up. That how you artificially manipulate an average consumer into considering the alternatives.
EVs are not meant to be more cost effective, they just have to be for now. But as solar and wind has shown us, that’s not the end goal.
EVs are not meant to be more cost effective, they just have to be for now. But as solar and wind has shown us, that’s not the end goal.
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Is she even 22 months old? Isn't it soothing and a secure feeling to think of all the experience in___?____?_____? She has so far in her life.....
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$50 site donor 2023
Strange but almost every one of those climate experts managed to get filthy rich in the process of preaching to the rest of us.
"Do not as I do.... Just shut up and Do as I say to you minnions."
They live + act entitled to their massive power eating mansions, their big private jet airliners and limos while the sheep belong in our grass huts and off the roads.
Overkill, there you go again, using math and logic in your replies. By doing so you neglect the value of virtue signaling that the use of hydrogen provides.
I am amused at all the references to an executive order of questionable legality that takes effect years after the governor that made it is out of office (California governors are term limited). That E.O. is about as meaningful as passed gas in a Kansas windstorm. It's only purpose is virtue signaling.
Sorry I said virtue signaling twice in the same post. Three times now.
I am amused at all the references to an executive order of questionable legality that takes effect years after the governor that made it is out of office (California governors are term limited). That E.O. is about as meaningful as passed gas in a Kansas windstorm. It's only purpose is virtue signaling.
Sorry I said virtue signaling twice in the same post. Three times now.
I get the math, and I am well familiar with the use of electrolysis to split the water molecule into hydrogen and oxygen, that is grade school science stuff. This ion exchange membrane electrolyser device supposedly takes the process to a whole new level and is much more efficient. If Bill Gates is supporting and participating in funding this, there must be a little bit of credibility to their claims. We'll see.That's just a small scale electrolysis machine, a process that we've been using forever. The reason it is not used to produce the bulk of hydrogen is that methane reformation is much cheaper, and can be powered by the methane also being reformed.
The issue will be the operating cost in terms of kWh consumed by the device.
For example, if we look here:
Electrolytic Hydrogen Production - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
We can see that power consumption for high efficiency electrolysis is 4.8kWh per uncompressed cubic meter.
Some quick notes:
- 1kg of hydrogen has comparable energy content to 1 gallon (3.2kg) of gasoline (124,884BTU)
- It takes 12.5 cubic meters of hydrogen for 1kg
- To produce 12.5 cubic meters of hydrogen would require 60kWh
A hydrogen fuel cell is ~60% efficient. So, we'd use 60kWh of electricity to produce 36kWh of electricity if we are running it through a hydrogen fuel cell.
This is an extremely lossy process and would only make sense if you could get electricity at insanely low prices.
The viability of this small electrolysis machine is predecated on it being powered by VRE, so you'd have to factor in the price of a massive solar (for example) over-build into the process, as well as a storage medium because a fuel cell can't handle load surges.
You are located in Texas, so you get much better solar exposure than we do. Let's work some of these numbers backwards. We'll say your month electricity consumption is 1,500kWh; 48.4kWh/day. We'll assume all solar output will be converted to hydrogen, which will in turn be consumed by a fuel cell, to run a battery bank (to cover surges) to produce round-the-clock power.
At 60% efficiency for our fuel cell, that means we'll need 81kWh of electricity to produce the ~17 cubic meters of hydrogen we need (ignoring for a moment the losses associated with compressing it). Assuming a 20% capacity factor for our solar, we'd need a ~17kW solar array, ignoring seasonal variance. Factoring in seasonal variance, you are probably looking at 20-25kW. That means a sticker price of $55,000 - $70,000. Then you have your battery bank on top of that, probably another $10K, then the price of your electrolysis machine, let's say $25K, then your fuel cell, we'll use the low cost estimate from here at $35,000. This means a grand total cost of $125,000-$145,000 for "cheap" home electrolysis and hydrogen.
Now, according to this, the average retail rate for electricity in Texas is $0.13/kWh. So, our 1,500kWh/month is $195; $2,340/year. So, it would be 53 to 62 years to break-even based on current retails rates, ignoring interest costs, on this scheme. And this also ignores the lifespan of each of these components, as well as R&M.
It's only if we are using insane California electricity prices of $0.34/kWh that we pad to $0.50/kWh to include delivery and all other fees, you are looking at a payback period of 14 years, something that approaches reasonable, but again doesn't factor in the cost (interest) of borrowing to purchase this system, R&M and other costs.
Even if they increase it exponentially I have zero desire to buy a vehicle that requires a high pressure dedicated architecture that doesn't exist.
Why - when I can buy a vehicle that simply plugs in, or get a traditional one with a billion fuelling stations.
Why - when I can buy a vehicle that simply plugs in, or get a traditional one with a billion fuelling stations.
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