Why large displacement v8 for SuperDuty
- Thread starter SilverFusion2010
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Yeah, but you have to get it to 2,200 rpm. I'll bet the converter does not allow that standing still... That's where cubic inches rule. At the bottom end
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
With the eco boost making 470 lb-ft from 2250-3500 and most of that in up to redline I think it could pull just as well as the 6.2L. I’d love to see a side by side test.
I would guess the big V8 would get better MPG under load. Before the big Retirement at work we had Ford E350 vans the ones with the 460 and the V10s were really nice to drive, they would go up the hills at 75 mph with out breaking a sweat and the smaller V8 both the push rod and the overhead cam engines [ I don't know the displacements]would be in second gear wot a 55 mph struggling to keep up with traffic . The vans loaded weighed close to 9,000lbs with the compressor the parts and tools etc. The big engines got better mpgs.
With the eco boost making 470 lb-ft from 2250-3500 and most of that in up to redline I think it could pull just as well as the 6.2L. I’d love to see a side by side test.
I would guess the big V8 would get better MPG under load. Before the big Retirement at work we had Ford E350 vans the ones with the 460 and the V10s were really nice to drive, they would go up the hills at 75 mph with out breaking a sweat and the smaller V8 both the push rod and the overhead cam engines [ I don't know the displacements]would be in second gear wot a 55 mph struggling to keep up with traffic . The vans loaded weighed close to 9,000lbs with the compressor the parts and tools etc. The big engines got better mpgs.
I’ll see if I can find some dyno curves. I think the torque comes on very quickly with the ecoboost. The post about the different bolt patterns for heavy duty transmissions makes a lot of sense to me.
Interesting stuff!
Interesting stuff!
Low compression, simplistic 2 valve per cylinder design and relaxed emissions/mpg ratings on Superduty class trucks would be my guess as to why the 6.2 is the engine of choice. I feel like the 3.5 EB would need one heck of a cooling system to handle the loads a Superduty is rated for daily.
To echo what bdcardinal said the dealership I’m at also sees minimal problems out of the 6.2. If I didn’t need my truck as a daily driver I’d definitely have an F250 with a 6.2. The fuel mileage makes that a non option at this point though.
To echo what bdcardinal said the dealership I’m at also sees minimal problems out of the 6.2. If I didn’t need my truck as a daily driver I’d definitely have an F250 with a 6.2. The fuel mileage makes that a non option at this point though.
Check this out. Last graph is Ford's data for 3.5 EB, 5.0,& 6.2. Doesn't take many rpm for 3.5 to overtake the other 2 on torque but drops off faster at higher rpm.
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/04/how...v8-engines.html
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/04/how...v8-engines.html
You guys are all over the place. There are no 5.0L V-8s or Ecoboost V-6s offered in the Super Duty Line. There is only the 6.2L V-8 and the 6.7L Powerstroke diesel.
https://www.ford.com/services/assets/Bro...y&year=2018
https://www.ford.com/services/assets/Bro...y&year=2018
Yeah and both those engines have been updated since 2011. The ecoboost added port injection to its direct injection, and the coyote had direct injection added to its port injection along with a compression increase.
They both have plenty of grunt.
They both have plenty of grunt.
Originally Posted By: MParr
You guys are all over the place. There are no 5.0L V-8s or Ecoboost V-6s offered in the Super Duty Line. There is only the 6.2L V-8 and the 6.7L Powerstroke diesel.
https://www.ford.com/services/assets/Bro...y&year=2018
You’re missing the point...
You guys are all over the place. There are no 5.0L V-8s or Ecoboost V-6s offered in the Super Duty Line. There is only the 6.2L V-8 and the 6.7L Powerstroke diesel.
https://www.ford.com/services/assets/Bro...y&year=2018
You’re missing the point...
My previous work truck was a 2013 SuperDuty with the 6.2. I really liked that drivetrain. Power everywhere, and never felt like I had to push it hard. Transmission was excellent too. If it weren't for the fuel economy and rough ride, I would have one at home. Hands down, the best work truck I've had in my 34 year career.
Your point was “Super Duty”. All of the other engines being talked about are F-150 offerings (1/2 ton). If your shopping for an F-150 then the 5.0L V-8 isthe way to go.
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Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Where's your data that there is any service time/reliability difference between the two engines? Just asking, since we are a board of data-seekers...
You have it backwards, that it's not a reliability difference between these two but rather, a reliability vs repair cost difference between these two and everything else.
Further, if you write data-seekers then it becomes your burden to back that up, provide data yourself, not expect someone else to do a lot of data-work to satisfy you. If it's important to you then you do that work.
Where's your data that there is any service time/reliability difference between the two engines? Just asking, since we are a board of data-seekers...
You have it backwards, that it's not a reliability difference between these two but rather, a reliability vs repair cost difference between these two and everything else.
Further, if you write data-seekers then it becomes your burden to back that up, provide data yourself, not expect someone else to do a lot of data-work to satisfy you. If it's important to you then you do that work.
The ultimate answer to this is what your term of ownership is and mileage put on. Highway miles are easy, if you're only going to own it for a few years and put a lot of highway miles on, go for the most fuel efficient modern design that will tow (if anything) what you need of it.
If you're in it for the long haul, choose the highest displacement old school design that will tow what you need. You will lose a few MPG and more than gain it back with reduced maintenance and repairs.
If you doubt this, price a low mileage pull or rebuilt 5.0L vs a 3.5 EB, and this is being generous to assume the EB is the newer design where intake valves don't carbon up and need cleaned every 75K mi. or so.
Might be a different conversation if it were a heavier duty than F150 but it is a good, popular vehicle for many uses. Seems like there was a survey or three on youtube a while back where the Ford mechanics that work on these were asked which engine they would choose, and the 5.0L won. If they don't have experience with which engines have more problems, who do you suppose does?
If you're in it for the long haul, choose the highest displacement old school design that will tow what you need. You will lose a few MPG and more than gain it back with reduced maintenance and repairs.
If you doubt this, price a low mileage pull or rebuilt 5.0L vs a 3.5 EB, and this is being generous to assume the EB is the newer design where intake valves don't carbon up and need cleaned every 75K mi. or so.
Might be a different conversation if it were a heavier duty than F150 but it is a good, popular vehicle for many uses. Seems like there was a survey or three on youtube a while back where the Ford mechanics that work on these were asked which engine they would choose, and the 5.0L won. If they don't have experience with which engines have more problems, who do you suppose does?
Originally Posted By: MParr
Your point was “Super Duty”. All of the other engines being talked about are F-150 offerings (1/2 ton). If your shopping for an F-150 then the 5.0L V-8 isthe way to go.
The question is why hasn’t ford moved to a smaller displacement v8 for the super duty line, given that they have 2 other engines with similar power output that are smaller displacement.
Consensus seems to be that emissions regulations are relaxed for this model segment so the simple big displacement v8 is a low cost reliable option for buyers that don’t need or want the diesel. The larger displacement gives good torque at the bottom end, and brocLuno made a good point about heat density.
Your point was “Super Duty”. All of the other engines being talked about are F-150 offerings (1/2 ton). If your shopping for an F-150 then the 5.0L V-8 isthe way to go.
The question is why hasn’t ford moved to a smaller displacement v8 for the super duty line, given that they have 2 other engines with similar power output that are smaller displacement.
Consensus seems to be that emissions regulations are relaxed for this model segment so the simple big displacement v8 is a low cost reliable option for buyers that don’t need or want the diesel. The larger displacement gives good torque at the bottom end, and brocLuno made a good point about heat density.
It’s pretty simple, the Super Duty Line is 3/4 ton and up. Everything on the Super Duty Line is heavier. The body, chassis, suspension, transmission and rear axle are heavier. These trucks are for hauling and towing. The smaller engines and transmissions combos will not hold up. I have a friend who has a 2016 F-150 with a 5.0L. He tows a 19’ boat or a 24’ camper trailer from time to time. He tells me, the truck is at it’s limit. He’s talking about trading for a 3/4 ton truck. He like the Chevy 2500 with the DuraMax Diesel because of the fuel mileage. If you want a Cowboy Cadillac then, you’ll be fine with a F-150.
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Nobody has mentioned customer preference. Perhaps Ford has polled customers to see what kind of engine they want in the SuperDuty.
I for one would prefer a larger, lower stressed engine in a big truck like that.
I for one would prefer a larger, lower stressed engine in a big truck like that.
Originally Posted By: MParr
I have a friend who has a 2016 F-150 with a 5.0L. He tows a 19’ boat or a 24’ camper trailer from time to time. He tells me, the truck is at it’s limit. He’s talking about trading for a 3/4 ton truck. He like the Chevy 2500 with the DuraMax Diesel because of the fuel mileage. If you want a Cowboy Cadillac then, you’ll be fine with a F-150.
I have a 2018 F-150 with the 5.0 Coyote, the new 10 speed transmission makes a big difference. I pull a 16 foot fiberglass boat. In tow mode you would never know the trailer is there. But unless it is hilly I keep it in normal driving mode but the truck still handles it well cruising. In eco mode not towing I get close to 24 mpg going 55 mph, and 21 to 22 going 70. Wish the turning radius was better but otherwise a great truck.
I have a friend who has a 2016 F-150 with a 5.0L. He tows a 19’ boat or a 24’ camper trailer from time to time. He tells me, the truck is at it’s limit. He’s talking about trading for a 3/4 ton truck. He like the Chevy 2500 with the DuraMax Diesel because of the fuel mileage. If you want a Cowboy Cadillac then, you’ll be fine with a F-150.
I have a 2018 F-150 with the 5.0 Coyote, the new 10 speed transmission makes a big difference. I pull a 16 foot fiberglass boat. In tow mode you would never know the trailer is there. But unless it is hilly I keep it in normal driving mode but the truck still handles it well cruising. In eco mode not towing I get close to 24 mpg going 55 mph, and 21 to 22 going 70. Wish the turning radius was better but otherwise a great truck.
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Originally Posted By: MParr
Your point was “Super Duty”. All of the other engines being talked about are F-150 offerings (1/2 ton). If your shopping for an F-150 then the 5.0L V-8 isthe way to go.
The question is why hasn’t ford moved to a smaller displacement v8 for the super duty line, given that they have 2 other engines with similar power output that are smaller displacement.
Consensus seems to be that emissions regulations are relaxed for this model segment so the simple big displacement v8 is a low cost reliable option for buyers that don’t need or want the diesel. The larger displacement gives good torque at the bottom end, and brocLuno made a good point about heat density.
I disagree on the emissions....The 6.2L can easily pass 1/2 ton truck standards.
While it's layout is ancient (90 degree/16 valve V8)....It's design is fairly recent.
Originally Posted By: MParr
Your point was “Super Duty”. All of the other engines being talked about are F-150 offerings (1/2 ton). If your shopping for an F-150 then the 5.0L V-8 isthe way to go.
The question is why hasn’t ford moved to a smaller displacement v8 for the super duty line, given that they have 2 other engines with similar power output that are smaller displacement.
Consensus seems to be that emissions regulations are relaxed for this model segment so the simple big displacement v8 is a low cost reliable option for buyers that don’t need or want the diesel. The larger displacement gives good torque at the bottom end, and brocLuno made a good point about heat density.
I disagree on the emissions....The 6.2L can easily pass 1/2 ton truck standards.
While it's layout is ancient (90 degree/16 valve V8)....It's design is fairly recent.
Originally Posted By: Dave9
The ultimate answer to this is what your term of ownership is and mileage put on. Highway miles are easy, if you're only going to own it for a few years and put a lot of highway miles on, go for the most fuel efficient modern design that will tow (if anything) what you need of it.
If you're in it for the long haul, choose the highest displacement old school design that will tow what you need. You will lose a few MPG and more than gain it back with reduced maintenance and repairs.
If you doubt this, price a low mileage pull or rebuilt 5.0L vs a 3.5 EB, and this is being generous to assume the EB is the newer design where intake valves don't carbon up and need cleaned every 75K mi. or so.
Might be a different conversation if it were a heavier duty than F150 but it is a good, popular vehicle for many uses. Seems like there was a survey or three on youtube a while back where the Ford mechanics that work on these were asked which engine they would choose, and the 5.0L won. If they don't have experience with which engines have more problems, who do you suppose does?
Those same Ford mechanics were stating that you would need the V8 for pulling power. Which shows they know nothing about the 3.5 EcoBoost. I’d say the techs were on break and they talked to the lube rack guys.
While neither option has shown to be flawless between the 5.0 and EcoBoost neither has shown to be truly problematic either. I’d take either over the 5.4 3v or GM’s 5.3 AFM engine and never look back!
The ultimate answer to this is what your term of ownership is and mileage put on. Highway miles are easy, if you're only going to own it for a few years and put a lot of highway miles on, go for the most fuel efficient modern design that will tow (if anything) what you need of it.
If you're in it for the long haul, choose the highest displacement old school design that will tow what you need. You will lose a few MPG and more than gain it back with reduced maintenance and repairs.
If you doubt this, price a low mileage pull or rebuilt 5.0L vs a 3.5 EB, and this is being generous to assume the EB is the newer design where intake valves don't carbon up and need cleaned every 75K mi. or so.
Might be a different conversation if it were a heavier duty than F150 but it is a good, popular vehicle for many uses. Seems like there was a survey or three on youtube a while back where the Ford mechanics that work on these were asked which engine they would choose, and the 5.0L won. If they don't have experience with which engines have more problems, who do you suppose does?
Those same Ford mechanics were stating that you would need the V8 for pulling power. Which shows they know nothing about the 3.5 EcoBoost. I’d say the techs were on break and they talked to the lube rack guys.
While neither option has shown to be flawless between the 5.0 and EcoBoost neither has shown to be truly problematic either. I’d take either over the 5.4 3v or GM’s 5.3 AFM engine and never look back!
Also on the valve deposit issue for the EcoBoost, we have never saw a drive ability issue that was caused by carbon build up on the valves. My brother in law and a few former coworkers of mine work at a bigger dealership now and none of them have dealt with it either.
BG sure has shown us lots of pictures and told us if we’re not selling their induction service every 30k Miles it will happen. Ford tech YouTube has videos about how it’s gonna happen to everyone but we just don’t see it in our part of the country. Ford tech YouTube’s response to this in another forum was the quality of fuel in this area. I could see that as a possibility but from my first hand experience that issue is a fix(induction service, catch can, methanol injection) in need of a problem.
BG sure has shown us lots of pictures and told us if we’re not selling their induction service every 30k Miles it will happen. Ford tech YouTube has videos about how it’s gonna happen to everyone but we just don’t see it in our part of the country. Ford tech YouTube’s response to this in another forum was the quality of fuel in this area. I could see that as a possibility but from my first hand experience that issue is a fix(induction service, catch can, methanol injection) in need of a problem.
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