Why Is Motor Oil Still Priced so high ??
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How do they know if you stay in US less than 48 hours ?
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Sure, you can buy Mobil 1 0W40 for $9.19 QT at Advance auto or Auto zone. Then pay currency exchange and your up to $10.94 plus local sales tax, maybe $11.60. Then cross the border and wait in line and pay your $4.00 toll. Then on your return, you can lie to the border guards, or you pay sales tax coming back in. At this point you are over the local full price at CT, not to mention your US quart is 5% less volume than the CT Liter bottle. Yup, you got it all figured out...
BTW, Mobil 1 was just on sale at CT for $28 a jug...
True, but if you go on a road trip with the family to the US and have the 800.00 limit you can stock up with a couple of years worth and that $3.00 toll fee is insignificant with the amount purchased. Mind you this theory was a lot better when our dollar was close to par but now I wouldn't bother as it would work out to the same cost as CT's 45% off deals or WM's rollbacks. I'll save the trunk space for booze and smokes instead.
Sure, you can buy Mobil 1 0W40 for $9.19 QT at Advance auto or Auto zone. Then pay currency exchange and your up to $10.94 plus local sales tax, maybe $11.60. Then cross the border and wait in line and pay your $4.00 toll. Then on your return, you can lie to the border guards, or you pay sales tax coming back in. At this point you are over the local full price at CT, not to mention your US quart is 5% less volume than the CT Liter bottle. Yup, you got it all figured out...
BTW, Mobil 1 was just on sale at CT for $28 a jug...
True, but if you go on a road trip with the family to the US and have the 800.00 limit you can stock up with a couple of years worth and that $3.00 toll fee is insignificant with the amount purchased. Mind you this theory was a lot better when our dollar was close to par but now I wouldn't bother as it would work out to the same cost as CT's 45% off deals or WM's rollbacks. I'll save the trunk space for booze and smokes instead.
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Originally Posted By: GMorg
TiredTrucker: I generally agree with your comments, but keep in mind that 30 people died during construction of the Alcan and 5 died to put up the Empire State Building. In addition, the Alcan used a lot of military labor and the Empire State Building used almost exclusively "foreign labor" - european immigrants and Canadian Mohawks. Many things have changed since then.
Ever check on road crews doing construction? How is it that now there are a myriad of new vehicle laws regarding construction zones. Hundreds of road crew workers are injured and killed each year in construction zones, mostly by vehicle operators that seem to think they are on a mission from God to get somewhere fast and they just feel they can do what they want in those zones. And when you do slow down around those areas, Actually take a look at many of the faces of the workers in those areas. While it seems almost prejudicial to say this, many of them appear to have ancestry that is from a region south of the U.S. or from Middle Eastern origins. Nothing has changed, except the fraud and waste that goes on. And also, that if you contention is true, that today we are using primarily skilled U.S. labor on to do these tasks, we are in s very sad shape when we can't complete a road project in at least the same time as we did almost 100 years ago, using modern technology.
I'll throw another one out. World Trade Center, tower 2. We put up that building in 2.5 years, completed in 1971. Tower 1, completed in 2.5 years in 1970. Today, construction on Tower 1 started in 2006, and still isn't done almost 9 years later. You can't use the "we used foreign labor or military labor" argument in this example. It shows that government involvement and the general trend to waste resources by both government and private entities is rampant.
TiredTrucker: I generally agree with your comments, but keep in mind that 30 people died during construction of the Alcan and 5 died to put up the Empire State Building. In addition, the Alcan used a lot of military labor and the Empire State Building used almost exclusively "foreign labor" - european immigrants and Canadian Mohawks. Many things have changed since then.
Ever check on road crews doing construction? How is it that now there are a myriad of new vehicle laws regarding construction zones. Hundreds of road crew workers are injured and killed each year in construction zones, mostly by vehicle operators that seem to think they are on a mission from God to get somewhere fast and they just feel they can do what they want in those zones. And when you do slow down around those areas, Actually take a look at many of the faces of the workers in those areas. While it seems almost prejudicial to say this, many of them appear to have ancestry that is from a region south of the U.S. or from Middle Eastern origins. Nothing has changed, except the fraud and waste that goes on. And also, that if you contention is true, that today we are using primarily skilled U.S. labor on to do these tasks, we are in s very sad shape when we can't complete a road project in at least the same time as we did almost 100 years ago, using modern technology.
I'll throw another one out. World Trade Center, tower 2. We put up that building in 2.5 years, completed in 1971. Tower 1, completed in 2.5 years in 1970. Today, construction on Tower 1 started in 2006, and still isn't done almost 9 years later. You can't use the "we used foreign labor or military labor" argument in this example. It shows that government involvement and the general trend to waste resources by both government and private entities is rampant.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
How do they know if you stay in US less than 48 hours ?
They ask you how long you've been away on your return. Also, I believe they get data from US customs on when you entered the US, so lying to them will likey flag you for inspection.
How do they know if you stay in US less than 48 hours ?
They ask you how long you've been away on your return. Also, I believe they get data from US customs on when you entered the US, so lying to them will likey flag you for inspection.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
One thing you missed in your analysis, FutureDoc. How a lion's share of that fuel tax money collected for infrastructure makes it to things like Tea Pot Museums in S. Carolina and studies like why monkeys have excreta fights with each other at the zoo and such.
And how it is, that in 1943, we built the entire Alaska Canada highway, thru the wilderness, all 1500 miles, in 18 months using 1930's technology. Or how we built all 111 stories of the Empire State Building in 411 days in 1932 using 1920's technology.
Yet today, it takes a road crew more than a year to complete a new road junction on a freeway, that is, if they really put a wiggle in it and try to get it done. Or two years just to redo two 200 foot bridges on I-29 in Iowa as an example. And it took over 7 years to add one more lane on each side to a 6 mile stretch of I-80 thru Iowa City. And they still aren't done redoing a simple road junction improvement of I-80 and Hwy 65 in Altoona, Iowa that they started 4 years ago. The fraud and waste is criminal. And there is enough greasing on the skids and money flowing everywhere but into actual road building and repair. If we did things in the 1940's the way they get done now, we would have lost WW II spectacularly.
It is one thing to think the government is doing such great things, it is quite another to see what they are actually doing. The government, in just about everything it puts its hands on, would screw up a wet dream if it could.
Hey, I defend the teapot museum (in NC not SC) but no federal dollars were used. It was initially appropriated but not allocated or spent. Ear-marks are an issue but that is because politicians have to "raid" revenue sources to fund project rather than actually taxing for whatever they "want". They rob Peter, Paul, and Mary to pay for gilded pews (or special interests). However, it is incorrect to say "most" of it goes elsewhere. We have been 20+ years "trimming" government. The amount that goes to odd-ball research (which I support... that funds grad students and college education) is probably less than your states bridge budget. Less than 1% of 1%.
The Feds pay 90% of capital highway project. Ninety percent. Most infrastructure can't be done without that assistance.
If you have an issue with construction, take it up with you local DOT, not the Feds. I have seen everything with construction projects. Landowners holding out, low-bid contractors under-staffing, low-bid contractors using incorrect materials and RE-DOING the same work. You get what you pay for. I have seen companies underbid knowing they will delay things and then add to cost.
Keep in mind, those early Highway construction project were normally government-built, now it is all contracted out. Private industry creates most of the delays outside of private legal challenges.
One thing you missed in your analysis, FutureDoc. How a lion's share of that fuel tax money collected for infrastructure makes it to things like Tea Pot Museums in S. Carolina and studies like why monkeys have excreta fights with each other at the zoo and such.
And how it is, that in 1943, we built the entire Alaska Canada highway, thru the wilderness, all 1500 miles, in 18 months using 1930's technology. Or how we built all 111 stories of the Empire State Building in 411 days in 1932 using 1920's technology.
Yet today, it takes a road crew more than a year to complete a new road junction on a freeway, that is, if they really put a wiggle in it and try to get it done. Or two years just to redo two 200 foot bridges on I-29 in Iowa as an example. And it took over 7 years to add one more lane on each side to a 6 mile stretch of I-80 thru Iowa City. And they still aren't done redoing a simple road junction improvement of I-80 and Hwy 65 in Altoona, Iowa that they started 4 years ago. The fraud and waste is criminal. And there is enough greasing on the skids and money flowing everywhere but into actual road building and repair. If we did things in the 1940's the way they get done now, we would have lost WW II spectacularly.
It is one thing to think the government is doing such great things, it is quite another to see what they are actually doing. The government, in just about everything it puts its hands on, would screw up a wet dream if it could.
Hey, I defend the teapot museum (in NC not SC) but no federal dollars were used. It was initially appropriated but not allocated or spent. Ear-marks are an issue but that is because politicians have to "raid" revenue sources to fund project rather than actually taxing for whatever they "want". They rob Peter, Paul, and Mary to pay for gilded pews (or special interests). However, it is incorrect to say "most" of it goes elsewhere. We have been 20+ years "trimming" government. The amount that goes to odd-ball research (which I support... that funds grad students and college education) is probably less than your states bridge budget. Less than 1% of 1%.
The Feds pay 90% of capital highway project. Ninety percent. Most infrastructure can't be done without that assistance.
If you have an issue with construction, take it up with you local DOT, not the Feds. I have seen everything with construction projects. Landowners holding out, low-bid contractors under-staffing, low-bid contractors using incorrect materials and RE-DOING the same work. You get what you pay for. I have seen companies underbid knowing they will delay things and then add to cost.
Keep in mind, those early Highway construction project were normally government-built, now it is all contracted out. Private industry creates most of the delays outside of private legal challenges.
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I think about $1.50 is fair for conventional and $3.00 for oil based synthetic.
Oil companies have been hosing us for a long long time.
If they pay their employees just enough to have 2 cups of Ramen noodles a day and steal additives instead of paying for it.
Oh come on, when was the last time an oil company had a razor thin profit margin (current crude/gasoline market situation not included of course) for any product they sell?
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I think about $1.50 is fair for conventional and $3.00 for oil based synthetic.
Oil companies have been hosing us for a long long time.
If they pay their employees just enough to have 2 cups of Ramen noodles a day and steal additives instead of paying for it.
Oh come on, when was the last time an oil company had a razor thin profit margin (current crude/gasoline market situation not included of course) for any product they sell?
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
You guys in US have no idea what high priced oil is.
You guys in Canada have no idea what paying for healthcare is...
No, we have no clue, but we sure know when a qt of oil cost $1.50 more!!!
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
You guys in US have no idea what high priced oil is.
You guys in Canada have no idea what paying for healthcare is...
No, we have no clue, but we sure know when a qt of oil cost $1.50 more!!!
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Why is motor oil still priced high? Because they thoroughly enjoy screwing us.
Oh, I am not just blaming the Feds. There is plenty of blame to go around from the idiotic way my county puts in a culvert in a gravel road (no not a contractor, the county employees themselves) to just about anything the Feds can dream up. It all comes from the same place... the people's back pockets. And the Peter Principle is alive and well from city hall to the nation's capitol. More correctly, *^&% floats to the top.
You have a limited perspective. While the Feds do pay out for infrastructure spending (including your college funding statement), they got it from the same place that the state portion comes from... that state's people. You seem to imply that the Feds get their money from thin air. I realize they do to some extent, as they have indentured my future great grandchildren with a debt the can never hope to repay. And that is the rub right there. If they can't get it from you or I, they just steal it from future generations. Or have the printing presses fired up and money printed so that all of the money supply drops in value. Just a different form of taxation and confiscation with the same result.... the people get the shaft.
But it is still the people who get stuck with the bill, irregardless. I would much rather most of the money stayed inside the state for infrastructure than being sent to Washington, sifted thru a dozen agencies, and then maybe 5 cents on the dollar comes back to the state.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but you still have a pig.
You have a limited perspective. While the Feds do pay out for infrastructure spending (including your college funding statement), they got it from the same place that the state portion comes from... that state's people. You seem to imply that the Feds get their money from thin air. I realize they do to some extent, as they have indentured my future great grandchildren with a debt the can never hope to repay. And that is the rub right there. If they can't get it from you or I, they just steal it from future generations. Or have the printing presses fired up and money printed so that all of the money supply drops in value. Just a different form of taxation and confiscation with the same result.... the people get the shaft.
But it is still the people who get stuck with the bill, irregardless. I would much rather most of the money stayed inside the state for infrastructure than being sent to Washington, sifted thru a dozen agencies, and then maybe 5 cents on the dollar comes back to the state.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but you still have a pig.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
One thing you missed in your analysis, FutureDoc. How a lion's share of that fuel tax money collected for infrastructure makes it to things like Tea Pot Museums in S. Carolina and studies like why monkeys have excreta fights with each other at the zoo and such.
And how it is, that in 1943, we built the entire Alaska Canada highway, thru the wilderness, all 1500 miles, in 18 months using 1930's technology. Or how we built all 111 stories of the Empire State Building in 411 days in 1932 using 1920's technology.
Yet today, it takes a road crew more than a year to complete a new road junction on a freeway, that is, if they really put a wiggle in it and try to get it done. Or two years just to redo two 200 foot bridges on I-29 in Iowa as an example. And it took over 7 years to add one more lane on each side to a 6 mile stretch of I-80 thru Iowa City. And they still aren't done redoing a simple road junction improvement of I-80 and Hwy 65 in Altoona, Iowa that they started 4 years ago. The fraud and waste is criminal. And there is enough greasing on the skids and money flowing everywhere but into actual road building and repair. If we did things in the 1940's the way they get done now, we would have lost WW II spectacularly.
It is one thing to think the government is doing such great things, it is quite another to see what they are actually doing. The government, in just about everything it puts its hands on, would screw up a wet dream if it could.
Rebuilding a roadway or an interchange is at least an order of magnitude more difficult to accomplish than just building the same thing, in the first place.
When you build a virgin road, you have no traffic to deal with. You do not have to remove old infrastructure. There are no utility right of ways. There is vacant land readily available to use as lay down areas. Businesses staying open and accessable is not a consideration. Holes and excavations can be left open with simple barriers or covers.
As far as buildings go, we no longer expect to lose a man to accident for each $1 million spent. Plus, we expect a lot more safety and amenities built into modern buildings.
If we were at war, I am betting a 1500 mile road through vacant wilderness would now take considerably less time to plow through than it did in WWII. And, given our present way of doing things, it would done under civilian contract, not with military construction crews.
One thing you missed in your analysis, FutureDoc. How a lion's share of that fuel tax money collected for infrastructure makes it to things like Tea Pot Museums in S. Carolina and studies like why monkeys have excreta fights with each other at the zoo and such.
And how it is, that in 1943, we built the entire Alaska Canada highway, thru the wilderness, all 1500 miles, in 18 months using 1930's technology. Or how we built all 111 stories of the Empire State Building in 411 days in 1932 using 1920's technology.
Yet today, it takes a road crew more than a year to complete a new road junction on a freeway, that is, if they really put a wiggle in it and try to get it done. Or two years just to redo two 200 foot bridges on I-29 in Iowa as an example. And it took over 7 years to add one more lane on each side to a 6 mile stretch of I-80 thru Iowa City. And they still aren't done redoing a simple road junction improvement of I-80 and Hwy 65 in Altoona, Iowa that they started 4 years ago. The fraud and waste is criminal. And there is enough greasing on the skids and money flowing everywhere but into actual road building and repair. If we did things in the 1940's the way they get done now, we would have lost WW II spectacularly.
It is one thing to think the government is doing such great things, it is quite another to see what they are actually doing. The government, in just about everything it puts its hands on, would screw up a wet dream if it could.
Rebuilding a roadway or an interchange is at least an order of magnitude more difficult to accomplish than just building the same thing, in the first place.
When you build a virgin road, you have no traffic to deal with. You do not have to remove old infrastructure. There are no utility right of ways. There is vacant land readily available to use as lay down areas. Businesses staying open and accessable is not a consideration. Holes and excavations can be left open with simple barriers or covers.
As far as buildings go, we no longer expect to lose a man to accident for each $1 million spent. Plus, we expect a lot more safety and amenities built into modern buildings.
If we were at war, I am betting a 1500 mile road through vacant wilderness would now take considerably less time to plow through than it did in WWII. And, given our present way of doing things, it would done under civilian contract, not with military construction crews.
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Late to the party, but I wanted to point out that base oil prices have come down quite a bit, but they only make up about 40% of the cost of engine oil. The rest is all the chemical additives - only 20% of the volume but easily 60% of the cost.
On top of that in case you didn't know Chevron, XOM and ConocoPhillips have all indicated a drop is coming on finished lubes. No word from Shell yet so we'll see what happens.
On top of that in case you didn't know Chevron, XOM and ConocoPhillips have all indicated a drop is coming on finished lubes. No word from Shell yet so we'll see what happens.
Our dollar's drop relative to the USD will make short work of any intended price drops.
maybe because it wemt up will oil wemt up?
Originally Posted By: Throt
I don't understand why people assume just because the price of crude drops that the entire system will suddenly adjust pricing to be in line with current market rates.
Motor oil companies invest millions in equipment, people (and smart ones aren't cheap!), R&D, Marketing, maintenance, insurance, taxes, and the list goes on and on. If Mobil and Valvoline and Castrol and everyone else halved the prices of the oil already on the shelves and the oil still being produced, they'd be belly up in 6 months. Basic economics. Think about it.
And not considering that like the people before me said, the oil in motor oil isn't what we're really paying for. It's the additives and the time, money, and research that goes into developing those additive packages.
Originally Posted By: Throt
I don't understand why people assume just because the price of crude drops that the entire system will suddenly adjust pricing to be in line with current market rates.
Motor oil companies invest millions in equipment, people (and smart ones aren't cheap!), R&D, Marketing, maintenance, insurance, taxes, and the list goes on and on. If Mobil and Valvoline and Castrol and everyone else halved the prices of the oil already on the shelves and the oil still being produced, they'd be belly up in 6 months. Basic economics. Think about it.
And not considering that like the people before me said, the oil in motor oil isn't what we're really paying for. It's the additives and the time, money, and research that goes into developing those additive packages.
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