Why I Call Dex-Cool "Deathcool"...

[Coolant_Man]

I guess I have been lucky catching it early enough to do something about it...

The first two images are from a 2003 Chevy S-10 4.3L. The last two are from a 1998 Chevy Lumina 3.1L. Both have been converted to G-05 and have had no issues since. Neither have had gasket issues. The radiator cap on the Lumina that is pictured was a replacement Stant cap. Even with the spring, it didn't help.

 

[Drew99GT]

Friends don't let friends run Dexcool.

 

[Coolant_Man]

True that.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

I am not having problems in my 99SL2 Saturn. I think Death Cool depends on what you use it in.

 

[Coolant_Man]

Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
I am not having problems in my 99SL2 Saturn. I think Death Cool depends on what you use it in.

Such as a Chevrolet, lol.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
I am not having problems in my 99SL2 Saturn. I think Death Cool depends on what you use it in.

Such as a Chevrolet, lol.


Seems to be an issue with certain GM cooling system designs or iron-block engines.

I have been running Dex-Cool in my '96 SL2 without any issues at all.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
Originally Posted By: MONKEYMAN
I am not having problems in my 99SL2 Saturn. I think Death Cool depends on what you use it in.

Such as a Chevrolet, lol.


Does the LSx have this problem? Does the 2.0, 2.2 or 2.4 ecotec have this problem?

 

[Coolant_Man]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Does the LSx have this problem? Does the 2.0, 2.2 or 2.4 ecotec have this problem?

Do they? None of my family or friends own those. Mainly V6 GMs, Dodges, and Fords. I have only owned Ford vehicles since I had a 2000 Chevy S-10 ZR2 Blazer 4X4 that had Deathcool issues that couldn't be easily fixed and got [censored] gas mileage.

 

[LS2JSTS]

I was asking. I don't know, and from your signature I thought you might know.

 

[mechanicx]

It's been said many times that having the pressure cap (especiially defective cap) on the radiator and not on the reservoir and/or allowing the level to go down can cause at least some formulas of Dexcool to sludge.

If you don't allow air into the system it will not sludge. I wouldn't trust Dexcool in application that don't have a pressurized reservoir, or in the older 3x00 V6 or 4.3 that had a weak IMG that lacks compatibility. but that doesn't mean that Dexcool sludges or doesn't work great in other applications.

 

[Coolant_Man]

I cannot find a picture I took when I did a G-05 conversion for a friend of mine's friend last year. It was a 2005 Chevy Colorado. I remember thinking it was strange having the overflow tank so far away from the radiator. It is located by the firewall. It seemed like that overflow tank tube was [censored] near 5' long!

Anyway, it actually looked OK, but it was starting to develop that red mud around the opening at the top of the radiator. The radiator cap also had a little bit of this on it. I was able to clean both up using a toothbrush. I ran 2 bottles of the 4-6 hour Prestone Super Radiator flush twice just to be safe. AFAIK, it is still doing just fine with G-05.

 

[qship1996]

Switch to Peak Global Lifetime and all your problems disappear.

 

[Dan55]

Here's a good interesting post on Dexcool http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1499204#Post1499204

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: qship1996
Switch to Peak Global Lifetime and all your problems disappear.


See this is my thinking too, that is if you car is out of warranty of course. The $50,000 question is though since PGL is a non-2EHA formula does it solve all the potential pitfalls of Dexcool yet give the same level of protection?


G-05 just like Green is more proven than PGL, but I'm not a big fan of silicates and having borates and whatever else is in G-05.

 

[defektes]

my 4.3 had no signs of slude even after IMG failure.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
Here's a good interesting post on Dexcool http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1499204#Post1499204

And another pic from a member/moderator, clean as a whistle.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1447739&page=1

And another member's dexcool pic.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1447739&page=3

 

[Coolant_Man]

Originally Posted By: Dan55
Here's a good interesting post on Dexcool http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1499204#Post1499204


I couldn't have said it better...

onion's post #1505588 in that thread...

"No doubt there were contributing factors. But it's a simple fact that NO OTHER COOLANT consistently produces the type and quantity of nasty sludge that you see REGULARLY in Dexcool systems. I agree that with vigilant maintenance practices, dexcool problems can probably be avoided... but why take the chance? There's absolutely no benefit to running Dexcool vs. G05. And there's a very well-established risk."

ZGRider's post #1513213...

{SNIP}... "I'm sick and tired of many of you Dex-lovers implying that all Dexcool problems arise from poor maintenence or bad gaskets. GM STATED IT WAS GOOD FOR 5 YRS OR 100,000 MILES AND WE TOOK THEM AT THEIR WORD -- THEY CHOSE THE COOLANT AND DESIGNED THE VEHICLE.

They didn't tell us to check the radiator caps until much later and they didn't say that the IM gaskets were faulty. We found that out after much discussion on the Internet and expensive personal experience. Using G-05 would not have resulted in near as much cooling system damages." ...{SNIP}

onion's post #1540950...

"Tim, I understand your skepticism. As somebody pointed out elsewhere on this forum: "'Data' is not the plural of 'anecdote'". This forum is full of anecdotes, and it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff if you haven't seen it with your own two eyes.

I've personally seen more than enough to be convinced that there's a serious, fundamental problem with Dexcool vs. other functionally similar coolants. I've seen high-mileage engines where Dexcool has performed spectacularly- some of the cleanest cooling systems that I've taken apart have been Dexcool systems. With good maintenance and good LUCK, it can perform just as well for anybody. The problem is that under certain less than ideal (though VERY common) conditions, I have seen Dexcool produce sticky and downright malignant sludge in suffient quantities to quite literally PLUG a radiator. Even moderate cases of this substance will cause chronic overheating problems- and the stuff is danm near impossible to flush out.

But don't take my word for it. You've seen references to the class action lawsuit based on GM's use of Dexcool. You'll get multiple sites on a google search. Do an image search on "Dex-Sludge", and you'll see images that you just won't find with any other coolant.

I've dealt with LOTS of cooling systems from LOTS of manufacturers- automotive, industrial, and agricultural. I've never ONCE seen ANYTHING like Dexsludge from any other coolant.

Now, G05, on the other hand, has been around for decades. It works in cooling systems that are very similar to GM cooling systems (ford, dodge, mercedes), as well as in heavy-duty industrial & agricultural applications (Ford Powerstrokes, John Deer construction and ag. equipment). I worked for a John Deere dealership for four years, and I can tell you that Deere approves G05 for use in dozens- possibly hundreds- of different models of equipment. We're talking about everything from cast iron engines with soldered brass radiators to modern electronic diesels up to 600hp with aluminum radiators & plastic tanks... even small Japanese engines with quite a bit of aluminum. It works just fine in ALL these applications. So I've no doubt that the stuff will work fine in a run-of-the-mill automotive engine like GM cranks out"

440Magnum's post #1548972...

{SNIP}... "I could understand sticking by DexCool if it offered an advantage... but to my knowldege it doesn't. At the very best it can do, its still only as good as G-05, not better in any way."

440Magnum's post #1549392...

{SNIP}... "The actual, real-world risk of conventional silicate antifreeze forming a harmful precipitate is at least as low, if not lower, than the risk of DexCool corroding an engine with an air leak. And even if it does, what's the worst case? A leaky water pump seal! Low-silicate HOAT antifreeze like G-05 is the perfect compromise because the silicate concentrations are low enough that precipitation is impossible for all practical purposes, and yet there's solid corrosion protection in the presence of air in the cooling system.

Personally, if HOATs didn't exist then I'd FAR rather use high-silicate conventional green antifreeze and change it once a year rather than risk letting an unnoticed pinhole leak allow air in to an OAT-filled system turn into a chemical chain reaction that wrecks the whole engine. I'd even prefer having to replace the water pump every 100k miles on the off chance that some *slight* abrasiveness from precipitates in conventional coolant were to wear the seal prematurely. Japanese, American, Korean, German, or Martian engine notwithstanding."

440Magnum's post #1549957...

"That's all nice to say, but its simply not true in all cases- namely cooling systems that use non-pressurized overflow tanks. You do realize, I assume, that the first thing that happens to that type system when it develops a small leak in, say, a radiator hose or the radiator, is that it stops drawing fluid FROM that overflow tank and draws air into the primary loop itself, right? In other words, the overflow tank stays blissfully half-full while the level in the primary cooling loop drops due to air intrusion. It goes like this: When you start the engine from cold, the cooling system fluid begins to expand and pressurize the primary system. Some excess coolant goes into the oveflow tank, and a little bit goes out the small leak. When you shut down and the engine cools off overnight, the coolant in the primary system contracts. Normally when the system is sealed, this draws coolant back in from the overflow tank but when there's a leak on the primary side its much easier for air to be pulled in through the leak than for coolant to be drawn in from the overflow tank. The larger the leak gets, the more "disconnected" from the main system the overflow tank becomes. That's why its important to periodically check the coolant level in the radiator itself on systems with non-pressurized overflow tanks."

And once gain 440Magnum on post #1552053 (which I REALLY like)...

"To the second part- Dexcool "works beautifully" under certain conditions: Accepted and observed as true. But after all these years no one has ever made a convincing chemistry-based argument that Dex has any advantage whatsoever over HOAT coolants. So my only contention is that GM's poor decision was picking an antifreeze that required design changes that would have been unnecessary with any other coolant."

 

[endeavor to persevere]

Just watch the coolant level and check the PH with a VO meter dont let it get over .5V

 

[mechanicx]

What 440Magnum says is not relevent or true for pressurized reservoirs. As long as the coolant level doesn't drop below the minimum level in the pressurized reservoir, the pressure is always as high or higher than ambient pressure below the fluid level in the reservior in those systems. A leak won't draw in air into the sytem but only release coolant and the level will drop. Which you should be checking the level periodically on all coolant types and systems. What he was saying just isn't the case for pressurized reservoirs. Air below the cap on a pressurized reservoir is not the same thing as air below the cap in a non-presurized reservoir system.

As far as 440Magnum saying there's no evidence that an OAT like Dexcool shows no advantage. that's not really true either. Dexcool system can look prestine with no buildup inside for many miles even past 5 years even without distilled water. That's not to say G-05 or HOAT is bad or not good too and dexcool is perfect, but there are some slight advantages besides a longer storage life to not having silicates, borates and other things in the coolant.

 

[Coolant_Man]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
What 440Magnum says is not relevent or true for pressurized reservoirs. As long as the coolant level doesn't drop below the minimum level in the pressurized reservoir, the pressure is always as high or higher than ambient pressure below the fluid level in the reservior in those systems. A leak won't draw in air into the sytem but only release coolant and the level will drop. Which you should be checking the level periodically on all coolant types and systems. What he was saying just isn't the case for pressurized reservoirs. Air below the cap on a pressurized reservoir is not the same thing as air below the cap in a non-presurized reservoir system.

Good thing he said, "namely cooling systems that use non-pressurized overflow tanks".

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
As far as 440Magnum saying there's no evidence that an OAT like Dexcool shows no advantage. that's not really true either. Dexcool system can look prestine with no buildup inside for many miles even past 5 years even without distilled water. That's not to say G-05 or HOAT is bad or not good too and dexcool is perfect, but there are some slight advantages besides a longer storage life to not having silicates, borates and other things in the coolant.

I have to go back to an old argument you and I were having. The HOATs use a LOW DOSE or either silicates (G-05) or phosphates (Asian). Both provide instant protection whereas OATs such as Deathcool take time to do so. This is a fact that has been documented numerous times. Silicates and phosphates are not as evil as the OAT coolant makers claim. Now perhaps they may have been back in the day since both were present in high doses in conventional American green coolant, but even that is debatable.

Keep in mind both silicates and phosphates essentially do the same thing in regards to providing instant protection which is desirable. The Asians prefer phosphates since their water is not has hard as the water in Europe. Here in the U.S., I think the figure is 80-85% of our water is hard water. However, since the vast majority of both OEMs and coolant manufacturers recommend the use of distilled water (preferred) or deionized/demineralized water, this is not really a big concern.