Why cant people see things objectively

[billt460]

Your blaming the teacher and the schools. Teachers and schools do not control the curriculum the school boards and states do.........

Look, both the reasoning and the end results of this entire educational fiasco in this country are highly political. And if we were to even begin to discuss it, this thread would be locked, or else removed in short order.

And you don't have to have a degree in political science to know and understand exactly which side of the political aisle most all of the teachers stand on this. So yeah, they share and shoulder plenty of the blame, because most of them share the same warped ideology. Regardless if you wish to accept it or not.

 

[supton]

And all of it has been going on for decades.

So multiple generations are to blame?

 

[Cujet]

Are you talking about this forum? EV's are the perfect example of this on here.

NOTE-I'm not responding to any comments on the statement I just made.

I actually think BITOG folks tend to have a great position on EV's. Many list the strengths, weaknesses and real world experiences.

I love to joke and often make the claim: "If it does not burn fossil-fuel, I don't like it". But for my new place in rugged and rural TN dirt roads, I'd love an EV rally type car.

 

[Smoky14]

Don't confuse me with the facts; I've made up my mind!
Smoky

 

[SC Maintenance]

Look, both the reasoning and the end results of this entire educational fiasco in this country are highly political. And if we were to even begin to discuss it, this thread would be locked, or else removed in short order.

And you don't have to have a degree in political science to know and understand exactly which side of the political aisle most all of the teachers stand on this. So yeah, they share and shoulder plenty of the blame, because most of them share the same warped ideology. Regardless if you wish to accept it or not.

Except your simply are regurgitating talking points you have heard somewhere. You even purport to know what the teachers think. You don't teach. You likely haven't been in a school in decades.

Its the same as it always has been, except for the reasons we cannot discuss every kid must now pass - ie no child left behind.

So the schools wisely let the kids self select. Smart kids and dumb kids. The smart kids build robots and compete with them like below. My kids did this. Lots of my friends kids did this.

The dumb kids sit around.

 

[fdcg27]

This is not a new phenomenon. The degree to which people are willing to go along with objectively false premises has always been influenced by the most prominent among us. Those who develop a following are able to create the most egregious fables of reality and have them widely accepted. People who feel aggrieved about their station in life are very receptive to any narrative that allows them to blame outside forces for their misfortune.

 

[Pablo]

Half the country calling people Nazis and Fascists - when they have zero idea of the definition of said words - tells you all you need to know about reasoning skills and more about them trying to reach some destination.

 

[KrisZ]

Tribalism has been bred into us, some more, some less. It used to help us survive, now it’s being exploited by corporations and governments.

 

[billt460]

So multiple generations are to blame?

Absolutely. None of this happened overnight. Except for the fact most teachers / professors / "educators" have been voting the exact same way for decades. Their political ideology has always remained the same.

They all, (regardless of which generation they matriculated from), have all supported the same political views and ideology today, that they did during the Vietnam war, and even before.

And all of these teachers come out of the same pool, and are all cut from the same political cloth as the school board members and people who hired them. So don't tell me teachers are innocent in this whole convoluted mess our education system is currently in.

They've been busy proving for decades, that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, trying to achieve a different result. If you need proof of their voting record, here it is. And a blind man can see where it has gotten us over the last half century.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wha...me..69i57.23282j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

"National teachers unions allocate at least 90% of their political contributions and campaign spending to Democratic candidates and causes, with data analysis spanning several decades consistently demonstrating this."

 

[pbm]

Look, both the reasoning and the end results of this entire educational fiasco in this country are highly political. And if we were to even begin to discuss it, this thread would be locked, or else removed in short order.

And you don't have to have a degree in political science to know and understand exactly which side of the political aisle most all of the teachers stand on this. So yeah, they share and shoulder plenty of the blame, because most of them share the same warped ideology. Regardless if you wish to accept it or not.

The 'Teacher's Union's' are the biggest donors to one party. (I just saw this was mentioned in the previous post while I was typing).

My beef with 'education' (besides the obvious bias) is that it's become a top heavy bureaucracy. My town voted down the school board budget in late May and they revoted with minor changes and it passed in June (the teacher's did their usual "after school activities will be cut" threats.

We don't have a high school and our high schoolers are farmed out to a neighboring district. We have a 'grammar school' K to 4th and a 'middle school' 5th to 8th grade...the total enrollment of both is under 400 students and yet we have a 'Superintendent' making $250K+, a Principal and Assistant Principal in both schools, a Curriculum coordinator and if I'm not mistaken a 'Business Administrator' all making very nice salaries and all living fairly local (not commuting into NYC and paying exorbitant tolls etc...which often justify those high salaries.)
It seems pretty top heavy to me and apparently to a lot of others who voted down the budget (which was sold as 'only' costing each taxpayer under $30 more a month.)

The other thing is the unions are always pushing for 'smaller class sizes'. When I went to grammar school we had at least 40 in a class (parochial school 1st to 8th) and we learned because there was DISCIPLINE which seems non existent today after hearing some of the stuff now being tolerated. IMO, pushing for classes of 20 is just another way of growing the bureaucracy.

 

[Tom NJ]

I have observed that people seem to have a problem comprehending three essential elements of reality: logic, probability, and time. This leads to "false facts" and a distorted sense of perspective. Without a clear understanding of facts derived from scientific methodology and logic, people tend to believe in what they want to believe or were taught to believe. For the most part it is harmless and makes people feel better, but as a truth seeker I am fixated on what is real, i.e verifiable or logically connected to verified. What doesn't fit is filed under "maybe" based on probability and employed with caution. Not sure if that is good or bad, but it is my nature and it has served me well as I am quite content.

 

[Zee09]

Simply because they choose not to.

 

[billt460]

........ When I went to grammar school we had at least 40 in a class (parochial school 1st to 8th) and we learned because there was DISCIPLINE which seems non existent today after hearing some of the stuff now being tolerated. IMO, pushing for classes of 20 is just another way of growing the bureaucracy.

It was much the same when I was in school. (Catholic grammar school with almost 50 to a single class). There is no discipline in today's classrooms. And you're exactly right that pushing for "smaller classrooms" is just another way of shucking responsibilities, hiring more teachers in the process, and making their jobs easier....... While, "the dumb kids sit around".

 

[SC Maintenance]

Tribalism has been bred into us, some more, some less. It used to help us survive, now it’s being exploited by corporations and governments.

This is an interesting point. I actually read something recently - not saying its true - but that genetically people are programmed to fit into the tribe, because historically if you where not accepted by the tribe you would likely die. So genetically the entire human race is full of mostly followers.

I have no clue about such things, but I thought it was an interesting point to ponder.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Absolutely. None of this happened overnight. Except for the fact most teachers / professors / "educators" have been voting the exact same way for decades. Their political ideology has always remained the same.

They all, (regardless of which generation they matriculated from), have all supported the same political views and ideology today, that they did during the Vietnam war, and even before.

And all of these teachers come out of the same pool, and are all cut from the same political cloth as the school board members and people who hired them. So don't tell me teachers are innocent in this whole convoluted mess our education system is currently in.

They've been busy proving for decades, that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, trying to achieve a different result. If you need proof of their voting record, here it is. And a blind man can see where it has gotten us over the last half century.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wha...me..69i57.23282j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

"National teachers unions allocate at least 90% of their political contributions and campaign spending to Democratic candidates and causes, with data analysis spanning several decades consistently demonstrating this."

Again, your mistaking a Union organization for its members and generalizing. Most states don't actually have a Teachers Union. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/states-with-teacher-unions

Even if they do, the teachers are forced into them. Most Union members go along to get along because there job depends on it.

 

[PWMDMD]

I wonder what the psychological reason that a person can see something and when it affects their Country, team, driver, or guy they dismiss the facts and are with them even if they are wrong, out, making an excuse etc. They cant look at the facts objectively. Is it wanting to be on the winning side or something else going on. Freud where are you! For example, I like Max Verstappen in F1, but there are times he has done things which were plain wrong yet his fanboys justify what he did. This happens in ALL aspects in life

A big part of it is identity.

For many people, their country, political party, sports team, religion, or favorite public figure becomes part of how they see themselves. Once that happens, criticism of the group feels like criticism of them personally. The brain stops treating the issue as a search for truth and starts treating it as a threat.

Psychologists call this motivated reasoning. We don't evaluate evidence neutrally. We tend to look for information that supports our side, scrutinize information that hurts our side, and give our team the benefit of the doubt when we'd never extend the same courtesy to the other side. It's also related to confirmation bias, tribalism, and cognitive dissonance. Admitting your side is wrong can be psychologically uncomfortable because it forces you to reconcile conflicting beliefs. It's often easier to rationalize, make excuses, or dismiss evidence than to change your position.

The interesting thing is that almost everyone does this to some degree. The people who think they're completely objective are often the ones most susceptible to it. The challenge isn't eliminating bias entirely. It's being aware of it and making a conscious effort to follow the evidence even when it's inconvenient for our side.

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

Absolutely. None of this happened overnight. Except for the fact most teachers / professors / "educators" have been voting the exact same way for decades. Their political ideology has always remained the same.

They all, (regardless of which generation they matriculated from), have all supported the same political views and ideology today, that they did during the Vietnam war, and even before.

And all of these teachers come out of the same pool, and are all cut from the same political cloth as the school board members and people who hired them. So don't tell me teachers are innocent in this whole convoluted mess our education system is currently in.

They've been busy proving for decades, that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, trying to achieve a different result. If you need proof of their voting record, here it is. And a blind man can see where it has gotten us over the last half century.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wha...me..69i57.23282j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

"National teachers unions allocate at least 90% of their political contributions and campaign spending to Democratic candidates and causes, with data analysis spanning several decades consistently demonstrating this."

My wife and I have direct experience with the problem. It's a small sample size, but never the less the teacher was complicit in pushing gender ideology on our young (2nd grade) child. We called it out to the principal and got a shrug ("that's what the teacher believes in"). It may not be all teachers or administration (the former principal before this incident was great) but it does exist.

 

[billt460]

.........Even if they do, the teachers are forced into them. Most Union members go along to get along because there job depends on it.

There are many jobs in the trades and many other professions, that for the most part "force" union membership. It doesn't change the tolerance for, or diminish the overall quality of what they do.

The bottom line here is there are far more teachers who agree with all of this nonsense, than there are fighting against it.... If there are any. Most happily go along because they wholeheartedly agree with it.

 

[billt460]

My wife and I have direct experience with the problem. It's a small sample size, but never the less the teacher was complicit in pushing gender ideology on our young (2nd grade) child. We called it out to the principal and got a shrug ("that's what the teacher believes in"). It may not be all teachers or administration (the former principal before this incident was great) but it does exist.

Proves my point exactly.

 

[PWMDMD]

Half the country calling people Nazis and Fascists - when they have zero idea of the definition of said words - tells you all you need to know about reasoning skills and more about them trying to reach some destination.

Mods - This is meant to be a general statement about the world and not an explicit post about US politics.

I agree that terms like "Nazi" and "fascist" are often used carelessly, and that can make meaningful discussion more difficult. But I also think there's a tendency to go too far in the other direction and act as though those labels are never applicable in modern politics.

The question shouldn't be whether someone is literally a member of the Nazi Party from 1930s Germany. The question is whether certain behaviors, rhetoric, or political movements share characteristics associated with fascism: extreme nationalism, demonization of out-groups, attacks on democratic institutions, suppression of dissent, loyalty to a leader over principles, and the erosion of civil liberties.

Reasonable people can disagree about where the line is, but it's not true that everyone using the term is ignorant of its meaning. Some people have studied the history and see parallels they find concerning. Others disagree with those comparisons. That's a debate worth having.

What concerns me more is when people dismiss the comparison outright without engaging with the specific behaviors being criticized. If someone believes a movement is exhibiting authoritarian or fascistic tendencies, the response should be to address the evidence, not simply assume they don't know what the words mean.