Why Can't I Import a Foreign Car?

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Originally Posted by Passport1
Perhaps you are correct about disguising the influence of the foreign manufacture's profit margins with a specious 'safety/emissions' claim. Just more sophistry from the elites at the NTSB/EPA. If your explanation is true it certainly weakens the excuse for not allowing importation of rare and highly desirable European market models.

I think you missed my point made earlier. In a country that touts individual liberty and a free market economy why should its citizens be encumbered by mindless bureaucracy?

The reality is that the numbers of cars which would be imported each year by enthusiasts would be de minimis and not worthy of suffocating regulations.

Who is John Galt?


I guess you are trying turn this political. Lets see how far that gets.......
 
Originally Posted by Bud
Originally Posted by sloinker
I think any car should be importable as long as it has deluxe Lucas electrics onboard.


I have had many MG and Triumph cars over the last 50 years. Lucas has taught me the true meaning of patience.


I daily drove an MGB in my younger years and it wasn't all that bad.
As a twenty something, I didn't really mind messing with it on a regular basis.
The only Lucas issues I saw were the light switch, which disintegrated one evening when trying to turn the lights on with various parts raining out from under the dash, the alternator, which took a few tries before getting a good rebuilt and the stock ignition system, easily and cheaply remedied with one of the then common aftermarket kits.
There were also the brake and clutch hydraulic problems, not avoided with Castrol LMA as often claimed.
OTOH, the basic guts of the car including brakes (weak as they were), chassis, engine, gearbox and rear end were quite robust.
Of course, clutch replacement required hauling the engine and gearbox out as an assembly to separate the two.
Who thought that was a good idea with everyman's sports tourer?
 
Ford and Chrysler tried to convince the Euro zone that Unmodified US spec cars would easily pass Europe crash standards due to their superior build, then promptly failed and it got hushed up.

Besides Reagan's gray market law there is zero reason a used 1st world car shouldn't be allowed on us streets.
 
Originally Posted by Passport1
If your explanation is true it certainly weakens the excuse for not allowing importation of rare and highly desirable European market models.


That's the main reason why Mercedes of North America and British Leyland US lobbied NHTSA/DOT and the EPA to tighten down the screws on the gray market. People were importing in the 1970s-1980s the Mercedes 500SEL/SL, the classic Range Rover and a few other European cars since the US-spec versions were underpowered or didn't have all the features.
 
Originally Posted by nthach
People were importing in the 1970s-1980s the Mercedes 500SEL/SL, the classic Range Rover and a few other European cars since the US-spec versions were underpowered or didn't have all the features.



Quite the opposite. The euro versions were the bare bones cars. Mercedes models with cloth seats, manual windows, no a/c, etc.
 
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by Bud
Originally Posted by sloinker
I think any car should be importable as long as it has deluxe Lucas electrics onboard.


I have had many MG and Triumph cars over the last 50 years. Lucas has taught me the true meaning of patience.


I daily drove an MGB in my younger years and it wasn't all that bad.
As a twenty something, I didn't really mind messing with it on a regular basis.
The only Lucas issues I saw were the light switch, which disintegrated one evening when trying to turn the lights on with various parts raining out from under the dash, the alternator, which took a few tries before getting a good rebuilt and the stock ignition system, easily and cheaply remedied with one of the then common aftermarket kits.
There were also the brake and clutch hydraulic problems, not avoided with Castrol LMA as often claimed.
OTOH, the basic guts of the car including brakes (weak as they were), chassis, engine, gearbox and rear end were quite robust.
Of course, clutch replacement required hauling the engine and gearbox out as an assembly to separate the two.
Who thought that was a good idea with everyman's sports tourer?


I have two BL cars that are loaded with Lucas and SU parts.

The MG in particular does not deserve the bad rap for electrical issues that it seems to get. The single biggest issues I've had are with cheap, poor quality new production replacement parts. In fact, not too long ago I spent $60 on a new old stock Lucas red box headlight switch, as the $20 ones that are readily available from Moss and other vendors will fail in a year if you use them regularly. The one I removed lasted nearly 50 years, so I can't complain too much about that. My biggest ongoing issue now is the brake light switch, which there again reliably goes out-sometimes from the internal spring overheating and losing temper, sometimes from simply falling apart, but most often from the plastic rivet that holds the whole thing together melting and causing the the switch to go open circuit(I've temporarily revived those, but it's always a short term fix until I can get a replacement ordered and installed).

I've had a few electrical odds and ends refurbished also. I opted to have someone in Minnesota refurbish my distributor, and it's better than new and far, far better than new production examples. I run points, but they trigger a CDI system(Winterburn) so there's no appreciable wear to the contact faces. Finding good quality points can be a bit of a fun adventure, but I have finally found them. Condensors are so unreliable now that I prize good working ones and rarely replace them when I work on someone else's car unless there's evidence of the old one going bad.

I am running a new production fuel pump from SU/Burlen fuel systems that came from the factory with the notoriously unreliable points replaced by a hall effect sensor. It wasn't cheap(around $250 IIRC correctly-amazingly enough NAPA actually had it in stock over the counter) but I expect it to last a long time.

The Marina has been a bit of a fun electrical adventure. A lot of stuff doesn't work, and it is significantly more complicated than the MGB. A lot of the issues, though, seem to stem from it sitting unused and undriven for 10 years. It initially didn't spark, but a few passes with a points file got that taken care of. I'm actually finding that a lot of things seem to come back to life if I just exercise the switches. I started doing that last night on the turn signals while tinkering with something else, and the next thing I knew I had 3 of the 4 working(both right, one left). One of my other issues that I'm slowly tracking down and fixing on that car is bad grounds, a problem that affects pretty much any old car, especially one that has sat.

BTW, shortly after I got the car, I swapped the transmission with the help of a friend. The original was grinding in 3rd and 4th, and the speedometer drive inside the transmission had disintegrated. It took us 2 days, but part of that was a delay of a couple of hours to repair the exhaust manifold studs that broke when taking it apart, and a lot of the rest of it was doing general clean-up and painting the engine and other odds and ends. There were a lot of other "might as well" jobs on the engine too like replacing the timing cover gasket, pan gasket, and rear crank seal-easy jobs with the engine out and a lot of work with it in. Even including the exhaust studs, we could have pushed and had it done on one long day if we'd skipped the clean up.

Both will be coming out again this winter for replacement. The rings are shot in the current engine, so I got hold of a spare bottom end am rebuilding it. It will go back together at a ~9.8:1 c/r(I'm running 9.5:1 now, stock is 8.8:1) and a "street performance" cam along with a bit of head work to help it breath. It's also getting an overdrive transmission(factory type 4 speed with Leycock electric O/D), which I'm having someone up in PA go through and rebuild anything that needs rebuilding along with converting it to a 3rd/4th overdrive unit.
 
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Originally Posted by PandaBear
Emission regulation mainly, then safety regulation. I think there's a way to import if you don't drive it on the street (competition only) or as a classic car (i.e. less than 1500 miles a year).

Seriously, what is worth importing? Other than some exotic classic or boutique for showing, I can't see why.


I'm a big MG and other British car guy. I mentioned earlier one car I would like to import-the MG RV8.

This was basically a 90s "resurrection" of the MGB roadster but somewhat modernized and with a Rover V8.

The other one I would like is a 73-76 MGB GT V8. This was the MGB that we all know and love but, again, fitted from the factory with a Buick/Rover V8. For whatever reason, it was not imported to the US, where it no doubt would have been a big seller. There are some here legally(around 30 the last I heard) and some other "recreations" since the tub was modified in '73 to make the V8 moderately easy to fit. I've driven both types, and there's always something different about the conversions vs. the factory ones. In any case, this is a beautifully handling car, as the aluminum Buick/Rover engine actually weighs a tiny bit less than the standard cast iron 4 cylinder. This means that, unlike 6 cylinder MGC that just added 2 extra cylinders and a few hundred extra pounds past the front axle, the V8 version drives and handles just the fastest/most powerful MGB you've ever driven.

Those aren't the only ones, though. There are plenty of cars that were sold in the US at one time, but for safety or emissions reasons were removed from the market here long before production ended on them. In the British car world, the Mini(original) is probably the best known, and the newest of those are still a few years away from being able to be imported.
 
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by nthach
People were importing in the 1970s-1980s the Mercedes 500SEL/SL, the classic Range Rover and a few other European cars since the US-spec versions were underpowered or didn't have all the features.



Quite the opposite. The euro versions were the bare bones cars. Mercedes models with cloth seats, manual windows, no a/c, etc.


Correct. I was working in a Honda store back in the mid 80s and we occasionally had independent car carriers with Honda dealer trades arrive at our store with numerous
grey market BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo, SAAB, Peugeot, and others. Pretty interesting to see what people were buying back then.
I really preferred the Euro spec cars with more comfortable cloth seats, manual transmissions, and more powerful engines without US emissions or safety features.
 
Originally Posted by bunnspecial

The Marina has been a bit of a fun electrical adventure. I swapped the transmission with the help of a friend. The original was grinding in 3rd and 4th, and the speedometer drive inside the transmission had disintegrated. It's also getting an overdrive transmission(factory type 4 speed with Leycock electric O/D), which I'm having someone up in PA go through and rebuild anything that needs rebuilding along with converting it to a 3rd/4th overdrive unit.


What engine in the Marina ? BL made BMC use the Toledo box for the Marina, and it was the worst thing about the car. A guy here used to convert them back to the BMC 4 speed, your Laycock overdrive BMC box sounds the way to go.

Never had too many problems with Lucas...the inertia starter is a cheap thing to do, but it works. Just bad connections with age, easy to sort. Love the colour coding - red for live green for switched, purple for horn etc. AND, they go through a connection retaining the same colour code ! I get so infuriated with Japanese wiring where a green wire goes into a connector block....and it comes out orange !!! [censored].
 
Originally Posted by Silk
Originally Posted by bunnspecial

The Marina has been a bit of a fun electrical adventure. I swapped the transmission with the help of a friend. The original was grinding in 3rd and 4th, and the speedometer drive inside the transmission had disintegrated. It's also getting an overdrive transmission(factory type 4 speed with Leycock electric O/D), which I'm having someone up in PA go through and rebuild anything that needs rebuilding along with converting it to a 3rd/4th overdrive unit.


What engine in the Marina ? BL made BMC use the Toledo box for the Marina, and it was the worst thing about the car. A guy here used to convert them back to the BMC 4 speed, your Laycock overdrive BMC box sounds the way to go.

Never had too many problems with Lucas...the inertia starter is a cheap thing to do, but it works. Just bad connections with age, easy to sort. Love the colour coding - red for live green for switched, purple for horn etc. AND, they go through a connection retaining the same colour code ! I get so infuriated with Japanese wiring where a green wire goes into a connector block....and it comes out orange !!! [censored].


I probably was a bit unclear on that-the 4spd/OD is for my MGB.

The Marina actually has a BW35 auto, which for the time being is giving me headaches. I have SOME hope that it might be coming back to life, but have also had a few setbacks on even giving it a preliminary test(backing it up and pulling it forward a few feet before taking it back out on the road). I looked into putting in a manual, but came to the conclusion that I was better to just find a manual Marina and also keep the somewhat uncommon auto. The electrical system is starting to "wake up" and I seem to have found some phantom drain as it drained the battery overnight(of course it could have been there all along and I'd missed it since I'm normally careful about disconnecting it).

In any case, we ONLY got one engine option in the US for the Marina-the 1.8L B series engine. I actually like it, as I know that engine well from working with it in the MGB for a few years. It's the same low compression(8.0:1) 18V engine that was fitted to post-72 MGBs, and with most of the same smog gear. The US only got the single carb version(not the UK "TC"), but I actually don't mind it. A single HIF6 feeds all four cylinders, which gives it a somewhat smoother and easier to set idle than a twin carb MGB. The exhaust portion of the manifold is the same design as the 1962-1974 MGB "double Y pipe", which flows as well as any aftermarket manifold or header. I'm planning some mild performance upgrades(up the compression and a cam, although I'm going a bit milder on the cam than I'm planning for the MG) although getting it roadworthy and reliably drivable is the first priority.
 
Originally Posted by Reddy45
Originally Posted by skyactiv
Originally Posted by Reddy45
Protectionism for domestic makers is part of it.

But the other aspect is crash safety.


For the longest time I wanted to import a Nissan Tsuru from Mexico since you could get a "2015" model of a car that hadn't changed since the 80s. Dead simple car.

But I looked into it and CBP has rules for which cars can be imported into the US and the inevitable conclusion is it's just easier to buy here.

https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car









Is the video supposed to sway my opinion? Because it doesn't. I even said that the simplicity of the Tsuru was why I wanted one.

Not everyone who owns a vehicle is interested in the safety aspect of it. To me, so many other features of the car stand well above crash safety.



I mean, if you sign a waiver never to carry anyone else in your car, or sell it, ever, then that's cool...

It's a death trap. The deaths per mile on that car are staggering, and there is no reason for it to be in production. I say this as someone who put over 250K miles in one.

Of course, good luck getting insurance on it. The rates would be astronomical, so, I don't really get the value proposition, either.

Is a modern-day Versa so loaded with tech that this is that much more appealing?
 
Originally Posted by JOD
Of course, good luck getting insurance on it. The rates would be astronomical, so, I don't really get the value proposition, either.


Insurance company cares more about your driving record and age then the car itself.
 
Originally Posted by bunnspecial
In any case, we ONLY got one engine option in the US for the Marina-the 1.8L B series engine


We got the A, B and O series in the Marina....Australia may have got a 6 cyl version of the E engine (Maxi) they used in the fwd Tasman/Kimberly and rwd in the P76. (now, the P76 would be something special to import into the US, the best car to come out of Aust, but they won't admit it.) I don't think I ever saw an auto Marina, just never considered an option in NZ, auto was something an old person drove.
 
I came upon this magnificent 1992 Nissan Skyline in a parking lot. The owner told me he purchased it from a guy who imported it from Japan. This model was never sold in the US. It is possible to import interesting cars here but you have to jump through lots of hoops to do it.


[Linked Image]
 
Originally Posted by atikovi
That's not an issue. No hoops to go through. Anything at least 25 years old can be imported without a problem


But it is a fiddly process. The vehicle has to be in effectively stock condition, and some of the manufacturers have given the Feds their historical build data. The paperwork is a bit of a pain, and, depending on the port, the officials aren't always helpful.
 
Originally Posted by wings&wheels
Originally Posted by atikovi
That's not an issue. No hoops to go through. Anything at least 25 years old can be imported without a problem


The vehicle has to be in effectively stock condition, and some of the manufacturers have given the Feds their historical build data.


Do you have anything in writing to back that up? Condition is really irrelevant as long as it's 25 years old. https://one.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/FAQ Site/pages/page2.html#Anchor-28852 #7.
 
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by wings&wheels
Originally Posted by atikovi
That's not an issue. No hoops to go through. Anything at least 25 years old can be imported without a problem


The vehicle has to be in effectively stock condition, and some of the manufacturers have given the Feds their historical build data.


Do you have anything in writing to back that up? Condition is really irrelevant as long as it's 25 years old. https://one.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/FAQ Site/pages/page2.html#Anchor-28852 #7.


I imported my 2.5na. Maybe your experience was different, curious as to what you imported?

Go search Defendersource or a few of the other LR forums for folks who tried to import older Rovers w/ later engines. Now you can bring one over w/ a newer engine strapped to a pallet, but the vehicle needs to be in original configuration.

You referred to the NHTSA regs, the EPA also has jurisdiction. From them:

"A vehicle is exempted if it has been 21 years or more since its original production year and it is in its original unmodified condition. "

"Importation of Vehicles Over 21 Years Old: EPA has long interpreted the equivalence requirement to mean that the engine must be identical to the engine that was originally installed. Such an engine is one that is the same model and configuration as the original engine."
 
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