Why are shooting topics locked so quickly?

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Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Nothing can prevent any shooting if a person wants to do it.


If a person exists in an echo chamber where others are doing it they're way more likely.

Look at the Stanford Prison Experiment and how quickly that went to heck.

There was a home for unwed mothers run by nuns in the early 1900s. They recently excavated 900 baby skeletons. Huh?

This more modern, focussed form of communication lets a person with preconceived notions find the 1/10 of 1 percent of others who think like them and spend hours every day feeding back similar ideas and amplifying them. Good if used for good, evil if used for evil.
 
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
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I mean...Nazism, fascism, and racism is a "point of view". But one that is unacceptable in a modern civilized society. Right?


Says the guy who just said he is sick of "rednecks".


I don't know? Was the SC church shooter that or a moonbat. Are white terrorists extreme conservatives or moonbats? Its moonbats we have to locate and watch?

I was listening to some conservative radio station yesterday. It seems they are up in arms that the president considers the SC shooter a terrorist. I mean how can a white guy possibly be a terrorist, hey Oklahoma city? This is what they spend all day talking about?
 
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Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Nothing can prevent any shooting if a person wants to do it.


If a person exists in an echo chamber where others are doing it they're way more likely.

Look at the Stanford Prison Experiment and how quickly that went to heck.

There was a home for unwed mothers run by nuns in the early 1900s. They recently excavated 900 baby skeletons. Huh?

This more modern, focussed form of communication lets a person with preconceived notions find the 1/10 of 1 percent of others who think like them and spend hours every day feeding back similar ideas and amplifying them. Good if used for good, evil if used for evil.


Exactly. To say that people can't be persuaded to do anything is naive thinking and takes the concept of personal responsibility to an illogical conclusion.

If that's the case, then why the constant outrage over college professors and teachers? Why the fear of madrases? Why the need for places of worship that teach notions of being virtuous?
 
You all have your echo chambers too. Everyone does it they want to find it. Whether you world champions like it or not...... People did not have the innerweb in the 1930s and much earlier than that. If you want to know who these wild people are....... Give them the freedom to express their point of view.
Jim Jones was a socialist who "inspired" people too.... That list can go on and on.... With people ALL across the spectrum. Living in Totalitarianville will not change that.
 
So basically a good person with a gun will eventually stop a bad person with a gun....unless the loser kills themselves like the Virginia Tech / Sandy Hook shooter ?

Anti gun ramblings from fools get old.
 
I do agree that ...yes, churches, mosques, and synagogues have the potential for positive influence or even negative upon people. Guys with sincere respect for you all.. And I really mean that
smile.gif
I don't think "outlawing" speech is going to be the right way to go. Look.... I DO NOT care for those people like that champion in S.C at all. Period. But the idea of outlawing crazy, ugly, and abhorrent speech is not going to work.
And the fear of these people inspiring others is certainly understandable. So is the actions some have taken too aka that guy in Charleston.
Also.... As for that conservative guy getting mad at the President for calling that young guy a terrorist... That fella is a complete fool. Yes, that does equal that. And the President was right to call it that has well.
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
You all have your echo chambers too. Everyone does it they want to find it. Whether you world champions like it or not...... People did not have the innerweb in the 1930s and much earlier than that. If you want to know who these wild people are....... Give them the freedom to express their point of view.
Jim Jones was a socialist who "inspired" people too.... That list can go on and on.... With people ALL across the spectrum. Living in Totalitarianville will not change that.


I know of very few people who are against free speech and the right to assemble and associate with who you please.

But those who choose to use their right of free speech in public settings to spread hate cannot stop those who disagree from exercising their right to free speech to disagree with them.

And private organizations have long learnt that they need to be on the right side of history on these issues.
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
I don't think "outlawing" speech is going to be the right way to go. Look.... I DO NOT care for those people like that champion in S.C at all. Period. But the idea of outlawing crazy, ugly, and abhorrent speech is not going to work.


This forum is not outlawing free speech. They want to limit the scope. And they don't want us constantly at each others throats.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
This forum is not outlawing free speech. They want to limit the scope. And they don't want us constantly at each others throats.

I agree with that completely. However, all the treason, redneck, and protection of the President stuff is superfluous and inflammatory. This can hypothetically be a perfectly clean forum where no one ever breaks the rules or goes off topic, but there is more than enough garbage elsewhere.
 
The anti-gun crowd or even the occasional sportsman is all too ready to give up all our American constitutional rights in the favor of a safer society, when all they do is create the opposite. People should have been outraged during the Boston bombers that the Police had tanks and "tactical" police going house to house and searching. That was a against every thing Americans stand for. We have the rights we have to guard against a government that is all too powerful. That means not being investigated or have our right to own firearms infringed. I d feel much safer in a room full of guns, then a room without any.
 
I agree with you there too Benito
smile.gif

People HAVE to stand up against way over and out there ideology. True indeed.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
The anti-gun crowd or even the occasional sportsman is all too ready to give up all our American constitutional rights in the favor of a safer society, when all they do is create the opposite.


Can I own a gun without all the "baggage" of having to rabidly defend the right to do so? Some days it would seem this would offend both sides simultaneously.
frown.gif


When a gun owner lets a weapon slip into the hands of a nutball who commits murder, everyone seems to jump to study the "bad public relations" aspect and "oh what does this mean for my gun collection" which, to someone who may have to mourn a person, would seem off-kilter. IMO, ideally, the gun lobby should be at the forefront of better health care, particularly mental health care, to prophylactically slow down the numbers of these "bad PR events".
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Rednecks and Corvette forum.... ???


You got it. Don't need to own, just need a hatred for the POTUS.

Go for it. I'm serious. Maybe that's the answer for those here that such the desperate need to talk politics.






I belong a certain diesel forum, and they do NOT talk polities there.
what they talk about is not only hate, but it is racist hate.
 
Originally Posted By: raytseng

Usually calls for such an area really mean that such a topic isn't really up for discussion but just for an echo chamber, where the most vocal have their ideas echoed and seconded by similar mindset to become validated rather then actually discussed or debated. There are no questions being asked or answered, just people looking to have their viewpoint validated.

Inevitably then the same hate just leaks over into the other forums because it was all good over in the echo chamber.


Agreed. Hate is hate. Whether you shout "rednecks", "gun nuts", etc., or any other derogatory term it's all the same. People are afraid of having their views challenged and it's human nature to look for consensus.

Funny how a few really different folks than me (politically) have become friends via PM/emails. I find it far more interesting to have folks that think differently than myself as friends. I like challenging viewpoints. Small minded IMO to only hang with people who agree with you. But very typical. And by simply reading their posts it is so easy to see in action...
 
I think the complaint by conservatives is that many of them are branded with a broad brush as terrorists when others such as the killer of the Marines, or the Ft Hood shooter and others are branded as "work place violence" or anything but terrorism.

Seems many in the mainstream media and in government bend over backwards to keep from offending one group, but have no problem offending WASP conservatives, and lumping them all into one bucket.

Apparently, it's ok to paint with a broad brush with respect to the WASP conservative, but not for any other group. If it's anything other than the WASP conservative, well, it's an individual act.

How about consistency. If you can't (and you shouldn't) judge a group based on the actions in a place like Ferguson, then why is it ok to judge a group based on the actions of the SC shooter?

If you go after one of the confederate battle flags based on the actions of the SC shooter, what other flags should we go after to remain consistent?

I think that's what many conservatives are looking for, consistency. If pattern A is bad, then why is it only bad when it's a WASP conservative? Why isn't it just as bad when it's an Islamic extremist, or an environmental extremist, or a left-wing extremist?

What is the goal? Do we really want a dialog, where all perspectives are heard, or do we want to silence those who have a differing view point, because their questions are uncomfortable and don't mesh with a preconceived worldview?

In my opinion, and it's just that, only an opinion. Most of these issues are not racial or religious, or gender, or political issues. They are character issues.

Bad character is well represented in all socioeconomic strata. There is not moral high ground for the left or the right. Neither for men, nor women. Equally true based on race.

All races have been enslaved at one time or another. All races has fought against such slavery from one time to another as one example. As another example, some think men have more affairs than women. Really? Who are they having affair with, other men? Of course not. Both genders are equally represented in the breaking of marriage vows.

Yet we have these misguided notions that because I'm in group X or Y or Z, I have some moral superiority.

Simply is not true. No matter what some leader of that group would like to tell you. If they are trying to teach you that, they are setting you up to justify their immoral actions, "for the greater good."

It's a time tested pattern.

If anyone is suggesting their group is morally superior, run, don't walk.

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
...
I mean...Nazism, fascism, and racism is a "point of view". But one that is unacceptable in a modern civilized society. Right?


Says the guy who just said he is sick of "rednecks".


I don't know? Was the SC church shooter that or a moonbat. Are white terrorists extreme conservatives or moonbats? Its moonbats we have to locate and watch?

I was listening to some conservative radio station yesterday. It seems they are up in arms that the president considers the SC shooter a terrorist. I mean how can a white guy possibly be a terrorist, hey Oklahoma city? This is what they spend all day talking about?
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Different views are one thing. Treason and hate speech are another. The same rhetoric the S.C. shooter had can be found on other forums. The Gabby Gifford's shooter too. And on and on. Please go there and don't ruin this one.


I mean...Nazism, fascism, and racism is a "point of view". But one that is unacceptable in a modern civilized society. Right?



It's funny you think anything negative said about the president is treasonous, but you don't seem to care about the treason the president commits almost on a daily basis...
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I think the complaint by conservatives is that many of them are branded with a broad brush as terrorists when others such as the killer of the Marines, or the Ft Hood shooter and others are branded as "work place violence" or anything but terrorism.

Seems many in the mainstream media and in government bend over backwards to keep from offending one group, but have no problem offending WASP conservatives, and lumping them all into one bucket.

Apparently, it's ok to paint with a broad brush with respect to the WASP conservative, but not for any other group. If it's anything other than the WASP conservative, well, it's an individual act.

How about consistency. If you can't (and you shouldn't) judge a group based on the actions in a place like Ferguson, then why is it ok to judge a group based on the actions of the SC shooter?

If you go after one of the confederate battle flags based on the actions of the SC shooter, what other flags should we go after to remain consistent?

I think that's what many conservatives are looking for, consistency. If pattern A is bad, then why is it only bad when it's a WASP conservative? Why isn't it just as bad when it's an Islamic extremist, or an environmental extremist, or a left-wing extremist?

What is the goal? Do we really want a dialog, where all perspectives are heard, or do we want to silence those who have a differing view point, because their questions are uncomfortable and don't mesh with a preconceived worldview?

In my opinion, and it's just that, only an opinion. Most of these issues are not racial or religious, or gender, or political issues. They are character issues.

Bad character is well represented in all socioeconomic strata. There is not moral high ground for the left or the right. Neither for men, nor women. Equally true based on race.

All races have been enslaved at one time or another. All races has fought against such slavery from one time to another as one example. As another example, some think men have more affairs than women. Really? Who are they having affair with, other men? Of course not. Both genders are equally represented in the breaking of marriage vows.

Yet we have these misguided notions that because I'm in group X or Y or Z, I have some moral superiority.

Simply is not true. No matter what some leader of that group would like to tell you. If they are trying to teach you that, they are setting you up to justify their immoral actions, "for the greater good."

It's a time tested pattern.

If anyone is suggesting their group is morally superior, run, don't walk.

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
...
I mean...Nazism, fascism, and racism is a "point of view". But one that is unacceptable in a modern civilized society. Right?


Says the guy who just said he is sick of "rednecks".


I don't know? Was the SC church shooter that or a moonbat. Are white terrorists extreme conservatives or moonbats? Its moonbats we have to locate and watch?

I was listening to some conservative radio station yesterday. It seems they are up in arms that the president considers the SC shooter a terrorist. I mean how can a white guy possibly be a terrorist, hey Oklahoma city? This is what they spend all day talking about?



I agree 100%. Best post in the thread...
 
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