I have the Toyo dealer change the oil for that reason. Not sure I'd trust some other shops to do it right or even change it at all. Had a UOA done recently that came out excellent.
why are basic cartridge filters so expensive?
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Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: Traction
The cartridge filter on my Camry just [censored] me off every time I have to change it!!! The spin on was usually uneventful. BMW is the only OEM than designed the cartridge filter right. It's on top of the engine, and all you have to do is remove center bolt/cap and change it. It even self drains for zero mess too. Perfect!
Mercedes does the same thing on their engine. They use a fleece filter element instead of just paper like some regular canister filters so that the filter lasts for 10k miles.
The Mercedes fleece filter media is probably the same as the Purolator Boss media. It may be identical. I am actually going to use those a couple times.
I would rather have the filter under the car even if the process is more complicated. It seems beneficial to have the filter going base up so the can is always completely full of oil on start. The galleries above the can also stay full. I would guess that's why Toyota went with it and also it seems much easier when the car is serviced on a lift to have it all right there under the car.
Originally Posted By: Traction
The cartridge filter on my Camry just [censored] me off every time I have to change it!!! The spin on was usually uneventful. BMW is the only OEM than designed the cartridge filter right. It's on top of the engine, and all you have to do is remove center bolt/cap and change it. It even self drains for zero mess too. Perfect!
Mercedes does the same thing on their engine. They use a fleece filter element instead of just paper like some regular canister filters so that the filter lasts for 10k miles.
The Mercedes fleece filter media is probably the same as the Purolator Boss media. It may be identical. I am actually going to use those a couple times.
I would rather have the filter under the car even if the process is more complicated. It seems beneficial to have the filter going base up so the can is always completely full of oil on start. The galleries above the can also stay full. I would guess that's why Toyota went with it and also it seems much easier when the car is serviced on a lift to have it all right there under the car.
Are they actually very expensive?
The made in Austria Mahles for my old BMW ran under five bucks each in a lot of ten with free shipping.
Seems cheap enough.
Buy one at a time from Walmart or one of the parts chains and you might pay a ridiculous price.
The made in Austria Mahles for my old BMW ran under five bucks each in a lot of ten with free shipping.
Seems cheap enough.
Buy one at a time from Walmart or one of the parts chains and you might pay a ridiculous price.
I like the basic spin on oil filter.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Are they actually very expensive?
The made in Austria Mahles for my old BMW ran under five bucks each in a lot of ten with free shipping.
Seems cheap enough.
Buy one at a time from Walmart or one of the parts chains and you might pay a ridiculous price.
This...Rockauto has my MINI filter for less than six bucks for a made in Germany Mann. Combined with air, cabin air filters for the Accord and MINI shipping was only $8.
If I wanted cheap they have several filters for $2.42
Are they actually very expensive?
The made in Austria Mahles for my old BMW ran under five bucks each in a lot of ten with free shipping.
Seems cheap enough.
Buy one at a time from Walmart or one of the parts chains and you might pay a ridiculous price.
This...Rockauto has my MINI filter for less than six bucks for a made in Germany Mann. Combined with air, cabin air filters for the Accord and MINI shipping was only $8.
If I wanted cheap they have several filters for $2.42
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Are they actually very expensive?
The made in Austria Mahles for my old BMW ran under five bucks each in a lot of ten with free shipping.
Seems cheap enough.
Buy one at a time from Walmart or one of the parts chains and you might pay a ridiculous price.
I suppose it's all relative. I believe the old Purolator classic was the same as the Mann one and you could pick that up as part of an oil/filter deal.
Are they actually very expensive?
The made in Austria Mahles for my old BMW ran under five bucks each in a lot of ten with free shipping.
Seems cheap enough.
Buy one at a time from Walmart or one of the parts chains and you might pay a ridiculous price.
I suppose it's all relative. I believe the old Purolator classic was the same as the Mann one and you could pick that up as part of an oil/filter deal.
My speculation would be simply, economies of scale. Compared to spin on there's less demand for cartridge filters, less production, higher prices. Might find similar to be true within and among various spin on and cartridge filter applications too.
Another example is OPE spin on filters. Generally speaking even though OPE filters are nothing special in design, because of lower production they command a higher price. That's the main reason I use automotive application spin on filters in place of the OPE filter.
Another example is OPE spin on filters. Generally speaking even though OPE filters are nothing special in design, because of lower production they command a higher price. That's the main reason I use automotive application spin on filters in place of the OPE filter.
Rockauto has several Toyota 1.8 filters for under $1.50 right now.
Originally Posted By: Traction
The cartridge filter on my Camry just [censored] me off every time I have to change it!!! The spin on was usually uneventful. BMW is the only OEM than designed the cartridge filter right. It's on top of the engine, and all you have to do is remove center bolt/cap and change it. It even self drains for zero mess too. Perfect!
Exactly. It makes oil changes dead simple.
The cartridge filter on my Camry just [censored] me off every time I have to change it!!! The spin on was usually uneventful. BMW is the only OEM than designed the cartridge filter right. It's on top of the engine, and all you have to do is remove center bolt/cap and change it. It even self drains for zero mess too. Perfect!
Exactly. It makes oil changes dead simple.
Originally Posted By: Traction
The cartridge filter on my Camry just [censored] me off every time I have to change it!!! The spin on was usually uneventful. BMW is the only OEM than designed the cartridge filter right. It's on top of the engine, and all you have to do is remove center bolt/cap and change it. It even self drains for zero mess too. Perfect!
Once I got the proper tool the Toyota is easy to remove.
My old 6.0 Powerstroke had a cartridge filter on top. Super easy to change. They should have made the injectors that easy to change.
The cartridge filter on my Camry just [censored] me off every time I have to change it!!! The spin on was usually uneventful. BMW is the only OEM than designed the cartridge filter right. It's on top of the engine, and all you have to do is remove center bolt/cap and change it. It even self drains for zero mess too. Perfect!
Once I got the proper tool the Toyota is easy to remove.
My old 6.0 Powerstroke had a cartridge filter on top. Super easy to change. They should have made the injectors that easy to change.
Maybe they are keeping with the theme.
Since they probably went to a cartridge to save the landfill of excess and Earth from mining. Maybe they use better materials for the environment. Cellulose from trees that are grown, managed, and harvested in a friendly and caring manner......well paid manufacturing plants, low emissions, etc, et cetera
Since they probably went to a cartridge to save the landfill of excess and Earth from mining. Maybe they use better materials for the environment. Cellulose from trees that are grown, managed, and harvested in a friendly and caring manner......well paid manufacturing plants, low emissions, etc, et cetera
Hopefully, some ingenious entrepreneur will come out with an oil filter relocation and conversion kit for cartridge filters to spin on filters. It would be nice to change the filter, like years in the past, by lifting the hood and seeing the filter placed in the engine compartment.
Someone will make money on that idea.
Someone will make money on that idea.
My son's Volvo has one that is "accessible" from the top of the motor and is quite large. I use the MANN filters. Very nice filter. First car I've owned that had one and I'm pleased with it but there is no way to "pre-fill" it or the housing which I wish I could do somehow.
Originally Posted By: mongo161
Hopefully, some ingenious entrepreneur will come out with an oil filter relocation and conversion kit for cartridge filters to spin on filters. It would be nice to change the filter, like years in the past, by lifting the hood and seeing the filter placed in the engine compartment.
Someone will make money on that idea.
This is hard?
Vehicles are either well designed or not. What type of oil filter a vehicle has is of little consequence.
Hopefully, some ingenious entrepreneur will come out with an oil filter relocation and conversion kit for cartridge filters to spin on filters. It would be nice to change the filter, like years in the past, by lifting the hood and seeing the filter placed in the engine compartment.
Someone will make money on that idea.
This is hard?
Vehicles are either well designed or not. What type of oil filter a vehicle has is of little consequence.
The GM 2.x Ecotec engine's filter is pretty darn easy to change. I have a Ion Redline, and even with the supercharger in the way its pretty easy.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
..There also R&D costs, equipment costs, government taxes and regulation costs that get passed on in the price
(because the consumer pays for them no matter what),shipping costs, retail markup, etc..
All of these GAAP are factored into all filter pricing. And all other goods.
..There also R&D costs, equipment costs, government taxes and regulation costs that get passed on in the price
(because the consumer pays for them no matter what),shipping costs, retail markup, etc..
All of these GAAP are factored into all filter pricing. And all other goods.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: dwcopple
They HAVE to be far cheaper to produce. They have no can, adbv, base plate, nothing. Basically an e-core guts. Why aren't they like $1-2/per?
If you understood a little about manufacturing, you'd understand that the actual materials that go into the item are only a portion of the cost to put it on the shelf. Assuming there are fewer cartridge filters produced, when a line switches over and produces cartridge filters the overhead doesn't decrease; instead since there are fewer units produced the amount of overhead per unit often increases. There are also R&D costs, equipment costs, government taxes and regulation costs that get passed on in the price (because the consumer pays for them no matter what), shipping costs, retail markup, etc.
It's simple manufacturing/business 101 combined with a little common sense (which clearly isn't all that common).
Only if the company is a non profit. The profit factor changes all rules of fairly passing on costs.
Originally Posted By: dwcopple
They HAVE to be far cheaper to produce. They have no can, adbv, base plate, nothing. Basically an e-core guts. Why aren't they like $1-2/per?
If you understood a little about manufacturing, you'd understand that the actual materials that go into the item are only a portion of the cost to put it on the shelf. Assuming there are fewer cartridge filters produced, when a line switches over and produces cartridge filters the overhead doesn't decrease; instead since there are fewer units produced the amount of overhead per unit often increases. There are also R&D costs, equipment costs, government taxes and regulation costs that get passed on in the price (because the consumer pays for them no matter what), shipping costs, retail markup, etc.
It's simple manufacturing/business 101 combined with a little common sense (which clearly isn't all that common).
Only if the company is a non profit. The profit factor changes all rules of fairly passing on costs.
I think this question was asked recently.
I believe the pricing being high MIGHT have to do with the necessity of them HAVING to build a good filter since there's no can to hide it in.
I believe the pricing might be high because many of the earliest automotive cartridges were for higher end cars.
They felt they just could charge you at a higher margin. Dishonest people they are.
I believe the pricing being high MIGHT have to do with the necessity of them HAVING to build a good filter since there's no can to hide it in.
I believe the pricing might be high because many of the earliest automotive cartridges were for higher end cars.
They felt they just could charge you at a higher margin. Dishonest people they are.
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