I guess I want to apologize for my post above. Not anything I said in it, exactly. I just seemed to ramble as I did it in haste and I missed some of the things I meant to comment on as I read through this (extensive) thread.
I blame management with unions only a contributing factor. Personally, I’d like to see management play hardball with these guys … have messy strikes that make the news each night and each side make their case to the public. Make it a national issue. I think most Americans would come down somewhere in the middle when contemplating which ‘side’ to take. Maybe the compromise they'd inevitably make would reflect that.
But labor’s just a small piece of the puzzle. I don’t believe for a second that it’s the cost of the vehicle that’s the problem. It’s the way the foreign makes (especially Honda & Toyota) seem to be better made right out of the box (even many of their little cars feel very ‘solid’) and hold up better years after the sale. People paid EXTRA for these cars … didn’t GM and the others get that? When selling, if you believe you are competing on price, then that’s all you tend to focus on and in the quality department, it’s a race to the bottom. You scrimp on everything making flimsily ... then over-spend on flashy promotions, rebates, etc ...
The result is people driving around in cars they aren't satisfied with and once bitten, they're often shy about going the same route. There are too many choices available these days.
A different issue is the corporate culture that the Big 3 have grown throughout the 20th Century. It used to be that the car companies practically dictated styling and other vehicle attributes to the buying public. They liked to build big, gaudy, clunky cars … and while America was growing in the 50s and 60s, these seemed to fit the bill pretty well for most traditional families. The foreign cars of the period seemed to be something of a joke by comparison. The beetle had a following and you could find nutty professor types on college campuses that drove BMW Isettas, etc … Other offerings from Mercedes, Volvo and BMW seemed odd/eccentric … and a poor value compared to American iron that was roomier, faster and cheaper.
However, rising gas prices, increasingly restrictive emissions and other changes in the industry meant that the Big 3 couldn’t build cars they wanted to … big, simple and production runs in the tens of thousands. And like a spoiled brat that doesn’t want to follow the new rules, they seemed to lose interest in making really good cars. It started when they made cars like the Pinto, Vega and Pacer … then came the Mustang II, GM X-body cars and K-cars. As VW and the japanese manufacturers' quality improved, the Big 3 looked more and more lost.
I think they have come along way ... but I keep running into more and more people buying their first foreign nameplate. Not sure how this could play out with a happy ending for them. They've had decades to get their act together but have spent too much of that time either counting beans or sticking their head in the sand.
--- Bror Jace
I blame management with unions only a contributing factor. Personally, I’d like to see management play hardball with these guys … have messy strikes that make the news each night and each side make their case to the public. Make it a national issue. I think most Americans would come down somewhere in the middle when contemplating which ‘side’ to take. Maybe the compromise they'd inevitably make would reflect that.
But labor’s just a small piece of the puzzle. I don’t believe for a second that it’s the cost of the vehicle that’s the problem. It’s the way the foreign makes (especially Honda & Toyota) seem to be better made right out of the box (even many of their little cars feel very ‘solid’) and hold up better years after the sale. People paid EXTRA for these cars … didn’t GM and the others get that? When selling, if you believe you are competing on price, then that’s all you tend to focus on and in the quality department, it’s a race to the bottom. You scrimp on everything making flimsily ... then over-spend on flashy promotions, rebates, etc ...
The result is people driving around in cars they aren't satisfied with and once bitten, they're often shy about going the same route. There are too many choices available these days.
A different issue is the corporate culture that the Big 3 have grown throughout the 20th Century. It used to be that the car companies practically dictated styling and other vehicle attributes to the buying public. They liked to build big, gaudy, clunky cars … and while America was growing in the 50s and 60s, these seemed to fit the bill pretty well for most traditional families. The foreign cars of the period seemed to be something of a joke by comparison. The beetle had a following and you could find nutty professor types on college campuses that drove BMW Isettas, etc … Other offerings from Mercedes, Volvo and BMW seemed odd/eccentric … and a poor value compared to American iron that was roomier, faster and cheaper.
However, rising gas prices, increasingly restrictive emissions and other changes in the industry meant that the Big 3 couldn’t build cars they wanted to … big, simple and production runs in the tens of thousands. And like a spoiled brat that doesn’t want to follow the new rules, they seemed to lose interest in making really good cars. It started when they made cars like the Pinto, Vega and Pacer … then came the Mustang II, GM X-body cars and K-cars. As VW and the japanese manufacturers' quality improved, the Big 3 looked more and more lost.
I think they have come along way ... but I keep running into more and more people buying their first foreign nameplate. Not sure how this could play out with a happy ending for them. They've had decades to get their act together but have spent too much of that time either counting beans or sticking their head in the sand.
--- Bror Jace
