whoa....111K miles Dodge ATF+4

[joel95ex]

I just used a liquivac to suck out 3 to 3.5 qts of ATF+4 from the 2005 Durango with 111K miles and it looked brand new... I couldn't believe it. No previous changes as the owners manual is horrible. no service recomendations unless you are a taxi or towing a lot. I replaced it with Valvoline ATF+4 which is supposedly fully synthetic. thought it was due for a re-fresh.

 

[440Magnum]

 Originally Posted By: joel95ex

I just used a liquivac to suck out 3 to 3.5 qts of ATF+4 from the 2005 Durango with 111K miles and it looked brand new... I couldn't believe it. No previous changes as the owners manual is horrible. no service recomendations unless you are a taxi or towing a lot. I replaced it with Valvoline ATF+4 which is supposedly fully synthetic. thought it was due for a re-fresh.

No surprise there. ALL ATF+4 is fully synthetic. It is one of the most tightly-spec'ed fluids on the market, which means that there is almost no (or absolutely no) difference between brands. It also holds up as well or better than old Dexron III/MerconV did, which means that going over 100k miles won't generally be an issue. ATF+3 was a nightmare- horrible oxidation rate, horrible viscosity (in)stability, quickly-consumed additive pack. It pretty much HAD to be changed every 40-60k miles depending on severity of usage. ATF+4 was pretty much created specifically to negate all those problems. By the way, if you changed 3.5 quarts you only changed around 1/3 of the fluid (depending on which trans your Durango has). I always prefer dropping the pan and letting it dribble overnight, which usually gets about half the convertor fill out too so that you're changing over 2/3 the total fluid. At least that was good on the old 46RE, 41TE, 42LE, and so forth. I haven't (yet) changed the fluid on a 545RFE, but it should behave pretty much the same. I do miss the days when the old 727s and 904s had convertor drain plugs and you could easily change 100% of the fluid- the irony being that those transmissions were so overbuilt that they rarely ever *needed* a fluid change...

 

[sparkplug]

My 545RFE in my Jeep as 143k on it and 130k of those are ATF+4. It looks brand new, even smells new. Great fluid.

 

[NHHEMI]

 Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

I do miss the days when the old 727s and 904s had convertor drain plugs and you could easily change 100% of the fluid- the irony being that those transmissions were so overbuilt that they rarely ever *needed* a fluid change...

Preach on Brother. Preach on! WHY auto mfg's in general no longer have the TC drain plugs is beyond me? No need for flushing machines and a true fluid change was a snap. It was SO EASY to completely drain the fluid that they can't even use the excuse that it was too hard or time consuming. A little shield came off and you undid a drain plug just like changing oil. Oh and this... The 727 was a monster. Man you could beat on those with no mercy they were such beasts. The 904 though was a little whimpy in my experience. I toasted a few of those in my day. Whenever I had a later year small block MOPAR with a 904 I always ended up having to go find a 727 out of small block powered Police Cruiser to replace it. I could get a high mileage used 727 for cheap, do a quickie and cheap go through to make sure it was all ok and replace seals and such, do a filter/fluid service, and it would hold up better than a 904 I rebuilt and spent a fortune on.

 

[panthermike]

Exactly the reason that I'm happy my MarkVIII has a converter plug.

 

[440Magnum]

 Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

 Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

I do miss the days when the old 727s and 904s had convertor drain plugs and you could easily change 100% of the fluid- the irony being that those transmissions were so overbuilt that they rarely ever *needed* a fluid change...

Preach on Brother. Preach on! WHY auto mfg's in general no longer have the TC drain plugs is beyond me?

I gather that when Chrysler was scrambling to get their first lockup TC design in place (remember this was circa 1976, one of those not so good eras for Chrysler financially) that the lockup clutch material was located right where the drain plug would have to pass through it. So the drain plug was deleted rather than coming up with a fundamentally different convertor housing, which would have had a lot of ripple-down changes. Now why OTHER companies lost the drain plug, and why Chrysler didn't put it back in later years, like the early 90s when they were swimming in money, remains a mystery to me. Being a bit of a cynic, I think it has to do with making things appear to be "sealed for life" which appeals to a lot of buyers out there. Same as with Toyota and Chrysler removing dipsticks from their automatics now As for 904 vs 727- have you ever opened both up? The 904 is for all intents and purposes just a scale-model of the 727. They even can swap valve bodies and a few other parts. The 904 has lighter gears and lighter/smaller clutch packs so its got significantly less parasitic power loss. In stock form, I wouldn't put it behind anything bigger than a 318, but with some modifications, it can handle a lot. The later "A998" and "A999" versions of the 904 had a deeper first gear ratio and extra clutch plates for truck and copcar use. For a while, drag racers liked to put built 904s behind big blocks and hemis (even though adaptors are required- no 904 was ever made with the big-block bolt pattern) because they lost less power in the transmission than with a 727. Of course they weren't going for longevity, either... I'll keep my 727s! :-)

 

[joel95ex]

yeah. our neighbor had me check the oil on her new jeep cherokee and I also pulled the transmission dipstick---er uh...plug...No dipstick!! to me it is just a way to get you in to the dealer especially with the "lifetime warranty"

 

[NHHEMI]

 Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

 Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

 Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

I do miss the days when the old 727s and 904s had convertor drain plugs and you could easily change 100% of the fluid- the irony being that those transmissions were so overbuilt that they rarely ever *needed* a fluid change...

Preach on Brother. Preach on! WHY auto mfg's in general no longer have the TC drain plugs is beyond me?

I gather that when Chrysler was scrambling to get their first lockup TC design in place (remember this was circa 1976, one of those not so good eras for Chrysler financially) that the lockup clutch material was located right where the drain plug would have to pass through it. So the drain plug was deleted rather than coming up with a fundamentally different convertor housing, which would have had a lot of ripple-down changes. Now why OTHER companies lost the drain plug, and why Chrysler didn't put it back in later years, like the early 90s when they were swimming in money, remains a mystery to me. Being a bit of a cynic, I think it has to do with making things appear to be "sealed for life" which appeals to a lot of buyers out there. Same as with Toyota and Chrysler removing dipsticks from their automatics now As for 904 vs 727- have you ever opened both up? The 904 is for all intents and purposes just a scale-model of the 727. They even can swap valve bodies and a few other parts. The 904 has lighter gears and lighter/smaller clutch packs so its got significantly less parasitic power loss. In stock form, I wouldn't put it behind anything bigger than a 318, but with some modifications, it can handle a lot. The later "A998" and "A999" versions of the 904 had a deeper first gear ratio and extra clutch plates for truck and copcar use. For a while, drag racers liked to put built 904s behind big blocks and hemis (even though adaptors are required- no 904 was ever made with the big-block bolt pattern) because they lost less power in the transmission than with a 727. Of course they weren't going for longevity, either... I'll keep my 727s! :-)

Yes, I have seen both tranny's in pieces and yes they are similar. I have never rebuilt a tranny personally but watched it done. I have the distinction however of being a 904 killer of the highest degree. Even behind a mildly modified 318 the 904 dies pretty easy in "stock form". TRUST ME! I did mention they can be built to take abuse but that costs a lot more than buying a used 727 from a small block powered cruiser and just freshening it up and throwing it in. Well, it did back when I was into that stuff with cars. These days I imagine a 727 out of a small block cruiser is getting scarce as an honest Politician and would bring a premium price tag even if blown up. Might be cheaper these days to build a 904? I would love to be able to adapt a 727 w/ an aftermarket overdrive to my HEMI Ram. NOTHING shifts like a 727. My last Road Runner was a Volare version with a 300+ HP 318. I killed the original 904 I had freshened up( B&M rebuild kit they used selective parts out of, added a shift kit, and synthetic fluid )in about 2 weeks. I got a 727 from a 360 powered Crusier and added a shift kit and some synthetic fluid( was in GREAT shape - came out of a 40K totalled cruiser ). LOVED IT! The 727 was one of the best auto tranny's ever built along with the GM TH400( Ford C6 was OK but not as good, IMO as the other two ).

 

[unDummy]

Regardless of what a fluid looks like, a UOA will tell you more.

 

[ARB1977]

Are those ATF+4 simular to D4?

 

[shanneba]

Red Line has a C+ that is closer to ATF+4 From Red Line's site - C+ Satisfies the performance requirements of Chrysler Types 7176 and ATF+4 (Type 9602),