Which Synthetics use group IV base stock?

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31
Location
Wyoming
I have searched for days through many many pages, and I can't seem to find a definitive answer to that question.
To be more specific, I would really like to know which of the currently available synthetic engine oils are in fact built either exclusively on Group IV base stock oil, or at least "blends" using very high percentages of Group IV.

From what I think I understand from studying the great technical articles here on BITOG (and other places), a "finished product" multi-viscosity oil that is manufactured upon a Group IV base stock, may not require any Pour Point Depressants, or Viscosity Index Improvers at all.

It sure seems to me like a better way to build a quality motor oil, rather than having to rely on those two additives to "prop up" the finished product. -Like avoiding having to deal with the long-chain polymer shearing problem inherent to VI improvers.

If anyone can "point me in a direction" that would be GREAT !!
Thanks.
 
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1,605
Location
Muncie, Indiana
Amsoil signature series, Redline, several varieties of Ravenol, some of the the 0w20 formulations of Mobil1, the forum's beloved Mobil1 0w40 is mostly GTL with a slug of PAO in it, Unless you're running super long OCIs, there's generally not much benefit to using expensive botique oils consisting of mostly PAO and POE base stocks over something of the shelf that may be all group III hydrocracked or GTL base stocks with a small amount of PAO or esters.
 

57_Chevy_Thunder

Thread starter
Messages
31
Location
Wyoming
Hey Everyone, I'm liking the good info your replies are producing !! Keep them coming !!

I have always wondered if the gas to liquid (GTL) technology may have some serious advantages. And "blufab95"'s reply sent me off on some more research. "Thank You !!" -including learning a bit about Royal Dutch Shell and their products.
At this point, I'm thinking there should be some very strong consideration given to assigning GLT's their own base oil group number. Group III+ might make some sense,,, but not really because GTL's apparently actually exceed the PAO's in Group VI in some aspects! Isn't that interesting,,,-and good to know. -maybe "Group III+/GTL"

So, YUP, at this point I'm really liking the looks of GTL's. (makes me feel a bit better about my current use of QSUD,,, -and I might even try the Pennz Platinum, if it meets the Gen2 requirement of Dexos 1) -(and Gen 3, maybe coming this year?)

The fact that this little 1.5T Equinox requires 0W20 (even though I think 0W30 would be better,,,,) pretty much necessitates a "full synthetic", in my mind.

Sure does make sense for me to use off the shelf oils, for several reasons, among which are: -I will NEVER run extended OCI's. -On our two cars, I always send off a sample for UOA at every change. -I track the reports very carefully. -On three of our four "driven" vehicles I normally change oil twice a year, Spring and Fall, and each of them accumulate maybe only two to three thousand miles in that six months time.
Granted, the Equinox 1.5T does get truly "Severe Duty" usage. -such as almost all short trips around our small town where the engine coolant often does not reach it's "normal" temp of around 200F. So you know the oil sump is even colder, especially in the cold winter months.

Yes, it would certainly be a "waste" for me to use "expensive botique oils."

And yes, "greasymechtech" the PAO's certainly still require their own specific additive package, unique to their particular needs. But hopefully not nearly as much as Group III and lower, especially the amount of VII which I still just don't trust very much, sorry to say.

Okay, I might as well be the first to say it: For my actual situation, I could use ANY off the shelf oil, brand name or not, along with probably ANY oil filter, and never have a problem.

But, I am who I am and I "over-think things like this. I no doubt will continue to use high quality oil filters, and hopefully very high quality oil.

-besides that, this rabbit hole is getting fun,,, so far,,,

BITOG is AWESOME !! Keep the comments coming !!
 

57_Chevy_Thunder

Thread starter
Messages
31
Location
Wyoming
So, I should have mentioned the list of Group IV's so far: It looks like,
Amsoil Signature Series, Redline, some Ravenol, some Mobil 1, MPT, Torco.
 
Messages
1,605
Location
Muncie, Indiana
Use mobil1 Extended Performance, it's like 60-70% PAO, probably got the most PAO of a reasonably affordable off the shelf oil, wait until the spring time and they'll probably have a 10-$12 rebate on it.
1613784381715.jpg
 
Messages
17,034
Location
Upper Midwest
So when someone chases after base stock composition it means that this is more important than the performance of the finished product? Sort of like when you pick a product because of a PDS or typical values sheet?

Why not pick an oil because of the demonstrated real-world performance that's documented by the approvals, specifications and certifications the oil holds?
 

57_Chevy_Thunder

Thread starter
Messages
31
Location
Wyoming
So when someone chases after base stock composition it means that this is more important than the performance of the finished product? Sort of like when you pick a product because of a PDS or typical values sheet?

Why not pick an oil because of the demonstrated real-world performance that's documented by the approvals, specifications and certifications the oil holds?
Your points are well taken, and in my opinion totally valid. My original purpose was to see if we could come up with a list of oils that are known to be based on Group IV base stock. It has been my understanding that very high quality synthetic base stocks require far less VI improvers, and in fact, depending on the exact multi-viscosity grade being manufactured, may not even require any VII's at all. To me that is a real bonus. Granted today's VII's are probably better than they used to be, but I think there is always a certain amount of HT/HS long-chain polymer shearing that can not be totally prevented. In other words, why have to add stuff to compensate for a shortcoming that could be avoided in the first place.

It just seemed better to me to start the whole process with a base stock that is already at the viscosity desired in the finished product. -especially if you can get it right at both low and high temps without a boat-load of VI additive. And please understand that I know there are still all of the other assorted additive that are required, no matter what base oil you are starting with. That is not the point of this discussion.

So, in part, I'm trying to find a way to prevent myself from just closing my eyes and buying 0W20 motor oil at $13 per quart. I really can't justify that at all, especially in my particular case, as I have already describe in an earlier response. Yes I am concerned about doing what is reasonably the right thing with our little 2019 Equinox "LYX" GDI 1.5L turbo, and some of the issue they have had. I am by no means "a typical vehicle trader" who pretty much just uses up one car and then after so many years trades if off for the next one. When a vehicle comes to live at my residence, I do not place on it any sort of pre-conceived life expectancy. Most vehicles I have parted with through the years, for whatever reason, I would feel totally comfortable with the new owner driving it coast to coast and border to border without any known defect or concern. -pretty dang wierd, huh !!

Today, thanks to a respondent earlier in this thread, I have become quite interested in the GTL-based oils. And no matter what specific oil I use, there is probably nearly a 100% chance it will serve my actual needs superbly. My OCI's are short in miles driven. And my UOA reports give me a pretty good idea that "all is well."

See, you all now have me self-conscious about using quotation marks,,,,, I suppose rightfully so,,,, -next it will be commas ??

BTW, one of the very first things when I am considering which oil I wish to use, is I want to know it's measured film strength. In my mind, that "residual film" is mighty important in situations where that is the only thing you have between two moving parts. -like every time an engine is started up, for that second or two before oil pressure comes up.

So now, I'd like to know more about your last sentence. Exactly how can I accomplish that? Could you please elaborate ?
Thank you.
 

57_Chevy_Thunder

Thread starter
Messages
31
Location
Wyoming
Use mobil1 Extended Performance, it's like 60-70% PAO, probably got the most PAO of a reasonably affordable off the shelf oil, wait until the spring time and they'll probably have a 10-$12 rebate on it.
View attachment 46042
Thank You bluefeb95 !
Where in the world do you find this stuff ?? Ah Ha, it is from the MSDS.

And now, in the category of "believe it or not" (some more quotes for you all to enjoy) that is the exact product I picked up about 3 weeks ago, for our little 1.5t. -maybe for the next oil change in a couple of months?

So can I find this kind of data for my QSUD 0W20, of which I have several jugs?

Thanks.
 
Messages
17,034
Location
Upper Midwest
Shell usually obfuscates their SDSs to just say "interchangeable low viscosity base oil" and is not as forthcoming about the base oil composition of their oils.
It’s not obfuscation at all, they interchange base stocks in accordance with API 1509 Appendix E. Which was recently ratified to resist changes btw.


 
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24,260
Location
Dallas,Tx USA
I wonder what makes XOM only use pao in their 0W20 EP? I remember a few years back,MJ,the guy who'd always respond to XOM's oil questions had told me "the new silver cap 15W50" back when it was first introduced was a group IV/V (pao and ester) based oil. I used that oil exclusively in my 300ZX for many years.

If I can find that email (if I still have it saved) I'll copy and paste it here.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
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45,796
Location
Ontario, Canada
I wonder what makes XOM only use pao in their 0W20 EP? I remember a few years back,MJ,the guy who'd always respond to XOM's oil questions had told me "the new silver cap 15W50" back when it was first introduced was a group IV/V (pao and ester) based oil. I used that oil exclusively in my 300ZX for many years.

If I can find that email (if I still have it saved) I'll copy and paste it here.

They don't, they use it in other lubes too, just not in as high a concentration. Here's the 0w-40 for example:
Screen Shot 2021-02-21 at 12.01.17 PM.jpg
 
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