Which of these winter tires should I pick?

[krzyss]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Do you want performance feel?

thats easy get the dunlop 4d
probably the best performance winter tire available in the USA
if not.. close to it.


If you want max winter traction
there are many excellent tires all of which will outperform the oem tires in any kind of winter slop.

I would shop by price for WS-80, or xice xi3
the pirelli options are attractive but usually not available as a super deal and not superior.

ie triple rebate dtd holiday sale type thing.

Since its august now.. at least wait for the DTD labor day sale to see if anything good is available for hundreds cheaper.

Another option would be nokian hakka R2 DTD should carry them.

might have to be inventive with optional sizing.



I couldn't write it better.

Krzys

 

[Rand]

Sorry If I was misunderstood.

I was saying

"Wait until September, DTD will most likely have a triple rebate deal on some tires.

Which will save you hundreds if applicable to the tire you picked."

I mentioned nothing about smaller wheel sizes. Although I would recommend it, if wheel size will clear the front brakes.


There are many great tires but I'd say the dunlop MAXX and goodyear wrt are one step below. Just like they were back in the days of the Graspic series tires.

Still a quality tire but not class leading.

You need to narrow it down to a performance winter tire

Which feels like a regular tire but just great in the winter.

Or a max traction winter tire that has every bit of traction possible on ice and snow and has compromises to handling etc.

 

[JHZR2]

Thanks, understood.

I'm looking more and more at a 16" option, perhaps with aftermarket wheels, like bbs. Seems like there's savings all around then. I've not been able to find any hybrid wheel pull offs, which means if have to go refurbished.

What would probably be great is a set of forged wheels in 16" Honda pattern.

Steelies in 16 or 17" always an option too. Black on black might look slick. Wonder if the odyssey 17" steelers would fit? Not sure when accord stopped having 16" steelies.

Tire rack has no name ones, but they're so cheap from Honda, why not use OE?

 

[ExMachina]

Definitely the Micheline Xice3 is the best overall.
Advanced Michelin technology there resulting in a 40,000 mile treadwear warranty AND low rolling resistance LRR benefits, in a snow tire that also performs pretty well in the hot dry months too.
What's not to like? Really a breakthrough in performance.
I've had them for a couple of years now and they do seem superior.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Definitely the Micheline Xice3 is the best overall...What's not to like? ...


Anecdotal reports say the Xi3 is not so good in deep snow. Objective testing of slush planing resistance reveals the Xi3 has weakness in this area, compared to its peers.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Definitely the Micheline Xice3 is the best overall...also performs pretty well in the hot dry months too…


Do you drive on your set of Xi3s for the entire year?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Definitely the Micheline Xice3 is the best overall...What's not to like? ...


Anecdotal reports say the Xi3 is not so good in deep snow. Objective testing of slush planing resistance reveals the Xi3 has weakness in this area, compared to its peers.


Was that all in the TR report (admittedly I looked at plots and not text), or elsewhere?

Slush planing is likely one of my bigger concerns.

 

[SubLGT]

Elsewhere. From testing by Russian and Scandinavian sources. AFAIK, no one in USA does slush testing for publication. Not TR, not CR.

As a general rule, from the tests I have seen, performance winters have better slush planing resistance than studless or studded winter tires. Even the Nokian R2 and Hakka8 are inferior to the Nokian all-weather WRG3, in slush planing resistance.

 

[Rand]

One of the big advantages of tire rack steelies(or other wheels purchased from them at same time) is you get free roadforce mount and balance.

Tire rack steelies have cheap paint(I sprayed mine very thin paint from TR). But they are hub centric and not junky lug centric like the DTD "unique" steelies

DTD I wouldnt use any of their steel wheels, they will also free mount and balance. 10$ extra per tire for road force. They come ready to go on. Free shipping.. TR shipping for me was about 100$

My tire rack steelies came all beat up with paint scraped off all over but TR customer service gave me half off the wheels and I just painted them instead of returning.

Slush planing is mostly a severe issue where you have ruts that all 4 wheels ride in. Around here the slush usually only affects 2 wheels at a time and I thought the ws-80 were quite excellent at crossing crusty piles that develop on the interstate between lanes.

You will lose MPG with the ws-80 they are definitely not LOW RR.

Hakka R2 and michelin xice xi3 have superior mpg I'd estimate at 5% better.

I have the xice xi2's and they are pretty unstoppable.
The whole deep snow fail thing is overblown.

Maybe if you put them on a suv with clearance for deep snow then tried to drive unplowed roads in colorado.

The xice xi3 will get you though ANYTHING that wouldn't be ripping off parts of your new car.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Definitely the Micheline Xice3 is the best overall...also performs pretty well in the hot dry months too…


Do you drive on your set of Xi3s for the entire year?


I am this summer. Trying to wear them out and get another set before snow. Wanting to save my summer tires for next year.

Bought my Xi3s on 9/2010 and still driving on them.

Will buy another set for the Tire Rack this fall.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Do you drive on your set of Xi3s for the entire year?

Yes I do. No problem with the Xice3, it acts like an all-season tire (has a VR speed rating), yet has the snow-ice tire ratings. When it came out a couple of years ago, Michelin engineers announced they had a tread compound that was soft when cold, yet stayed hard enough for hot, kind of akin to VI in oils as an analogy. Thats how they achieve long tread life too.

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Anecdotal reports say the Xi3 is not so good in deep snow. Objective testing of slush planing resistance reveals the Xi3 has weakness in this area, compared to its peers.

That may be true, but the differences must be small. I chose the Xice3 because of the high siping that breaks up ice-water top-films better, and the Snowflake on the Mountain test pass, and of course the long tread life, high speed rating, and LRR GreenX rating too.
ALL (any) tires are compromises, but this tire is the most optimal I have ever seen for it all.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Definitely the Micheline Xice3 is the best overall...also performs pretty well in the hot dry months too…


Do you drive on your set of Xi3s for the entire year?


I am this summer. Trying to wear them out and get another set before snow. Wanting to save my summer tires for next year.

Bought my Xi3s on 9/2010 and still driving on them.

Will buy another set for the Tire Rack this fall.


They are hard to wear out! Strange for a snow-ice tire (a good thing).
I'm hooked too. Really there are many good snow tires out there, hard to go too wrong really, but the brains at Michelin have come up with a standout in my opinion. And, as a bonus I guess, they never seem to lose air; very well sealed.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Rand
One of the big advantages of tire rack steelies(or other wheels purchased from them at same time) is you get free roadforce mount and balance.

Tire rack steelies have cheap paint(I sprayed mine very thin paint from TR). But they are hub centric and not junky lug centric like the DTD "unique" steelies

DTD I wouldnt use any of their steel wheels, they will also free mount and balance. 10$ extra per tire for road force. They come ready to go on. Free shipping.. TR shipping for me was about 100$

My tire rack steelies came all beat up with paint scraped off all over but TR customer service gave me half off the wheels and I just painted them instead of returning.

Slush planing is mostly a severe issue where you have ruts that all 4 wheels ride in. Around here the slush usually only affects 2 wheels at a time and I thought the ws-80 were quite excellent at crossing crusty piles that develop on the interstate between lanes.

You will lose MPG with the ws-80 they are definitely not LOW RR.

Hakka R2 and michelin xice xi3 have superior mpg I'd estimate at 5% better.

I have the xice xi2's and they are pretty unstoppable.
The whole deep snow fail thing is overblown.

Maybe if you put them on a suv with clearance for deep snow then tried to drive unplowed roads in colorado.

The xice xi3 will get you though ANYTHING that wouldn't be ripping off parts of your new car.


Thanks for all this!

Im leaning one of a few ways...

Believe it or not, the 225/50-17 size has more options than most! That said, they can be $40-90 more than many of the 16" sizes. I looked at the TR recommendations for -1 sizes and think that 215/60R-16 is a good compromise in that it gets a good number of low cost options and at the same time is only 1.2% off on the speedometer.

So then I looked at wheels. Keep in mind that my wheels are two tone with a machined face and black accents. Its an all black car, so I kind of liked the dark wheels.

Two tone machined wheels seem to be all the rage, I saw them on a 2016 Accord pre-release...

All in all to have dark wheels, and strong ones, that means steelies, or some aftermarket wheel. Yes, there is an Accord 16" but it doesnt get the dark color I was (sort of, I think) interested in. I also looked into last-gen 16" steelies, which are an OE option, and also found some great 5-spoke silver CR-V wheels...

Ill be the first to admit that I know next to nothing about buying wheels... So I looked at Tire Rack as most other places didnt really seem to show much of value. Maybe it was just me.

My first preference was forged. Tough to find any good looking, modern 16" forged wheels, but may be user error.

So I at least wanted low pressure cast, not just gravity cast. Found some decent American Racing ones, but theyre Chinesium.

But then I found that BBS has a wheel for my car that is in athracite and is first-world made.

Regular 16" steelies dont look that great:

But I did find an image on another forum of what are late-model CR-V silver steel wheels which I think look decent, especially if I was to get them nicely painted blackish or dark grey-silver color. Then you get the strength of steel with a slightly improved look.

Im leaning towards the five spoke steel or the BBS currently, but knows???!?

 

[SatinSilver]

The BBS wheels get my vote. They look very nice and kind of remind me of the rims on an 08 Acura TL-S which is a good thing.

There may be some oem takeoff's on CL or www.driveaccord.net, click on "classifieds".

edit: ha, just saw your wtb post. Looks like someone sent you a pm.

 

[JHZR2]

pm was for wheels Im not particularly keen on. BBS is my wife's pick too...

Wonder if I can fit a Honda center cap on the BBS??

 

[SatinSilver]

You could probably change the center caps but I'd probably just leave it. I remember a thread over there about it which kind of changed my mind. Plus it's a name brand that is very well known.

You might want to spray some FF around the center cap esp behind it since that's where corrosion first starts to form on Honda oem wheels. Might want to do it on the van also. I'd take the wheels off first though as not to coat the brake hardware with FF. Prior to the FF if you do it maybe coat the wheels with a durable sealant. Then in the spring they should clean up nicely.

Here's a CC thread:

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/170-wheels-suspension-brakes/81085-center-cap-help.html

Looks like the wheels on the PHEV are actually wheel covers:

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/162-wh...ccord-phev.html

 

[JHZR2]

Interesting. My MB 240D has lightweight forged aluminum "steelies" that take a hubcap over them. It's just to keep unsprung mass down on a low power car. Wonder what the plug in wheels are under the caps - I'd guess something similar if not just a five spoke alloy.

Thanks for the leads on the center caps. I think not saying H would bother me a bit...

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Interesting. My MB 240D has lightweight forged aluminum "steelies" that take a hubcap over them. It's just to keep unsprung mass down on a low power car. Wonder what the plug in wheels are under the caps - I'd guess something similar if not just a five spoke alloy.

Thanks for the leads on the center caps. I think not saying H would bother me a bit...


I think the second picture shows what the wheels look like without the hubcaps on. Which I didn't catch at first. I've seen this on a Prius also.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
...No problem with the Xice3, it acts like an all-season tire (has a VR speed rating), yet has the snow-ice tire ratings. When it came out a couple of years ago, Michelin engineers announced they had a tread compound that was soft when cold, yet stayed hard enough for hot, kind of akin to VI in oils as an analogy. Thats how they achieve long tread life too...


Sorry, there is no such thing as a "VR" speed rating. The Xi3 is available in two speed ratings: T and H.

I paid a lot of attention to the Xi3 when it arrived, and read all the press materials I could find online, and never read anything asserting that the tread "stayed hard enough for hot". I never read anything from Michelin promoting or approving its use in the hot, summer weather.

Michelin says this about their tread compound in the Xi3: "The Flex-Ice™ compound. This full-silica compound maintains flexibility at lower temperatures, improving performance on ice and in snow. It also maintains firmness at moderate temperatures, improving wear and grip".

It may feel like an all-season tire, but it is not intended to be used as one. Michelin would not endorse its use as an all season, all year long tire. I would bet money on that. It is a true winter tire, optimized for ice and snow. It has very long wet braking distances in warm weather, and poor emergency handling in the wet. Not to mention quicker wear in the heat than an AS tire. This is true of all the studded and studless winter tires, not just the Xi3. That is the tradeoff for superior ice and snow traction.

I don't know of any winter tire manufacturers who endorse using their dedicated winter tires for summer use. For that purpose, there are all-weather tires, such as the Nokian WRG3, the Toyo Celsius, the Michelin CrossClimate, etc. They are approved for summer use, but also have the snowflake symbol on the sidewall. They are essentially all-season tires with enhanced ice and snow traction.

For year round use, Michelin has the Cross Climate:
http://www.michelin.com/eng/media-room/p...oint-in-history

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-CrossClimate-launched-is-this-a-game-changer.htm

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Sorry, there is no such thing as a "VR" speed rating. The Xi3 is available in two speed ratings: T and H.

My Goodyear winter tires, the Eagle Ultra-Grip GW-3's, are VR rated, so it does exist anyway. I was confusing that speed rating with my Xice3's HR rating, so you're right, they are only rated to a wimpy little 130 mph, not the 149 mph of a VR tire.



Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Michelin says this about their tread compound in the Xi3: "The Flex-Ice™ compound. This full-silica compound maintains flexibility at lower temperatures, improving performance on ice and in snow. It also maintains firmness at moderate temperatures, improving wear and grip".

I thought I read some trade magazine article about 4 years ago that used a little stronger language about the Xice3's ability to not get too soft at high-speed summer driving, similar to what you have to go through to meet the 130mph, sustained, full load, HR speed tests the Xice3 holds. Engineers speaking off-the-cuff, possibly at an SAE meeting.
It also directly relates to its 40,000 mile treadwear rating, and my own experience with the tread toughness in hot weather.

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
It may feel like an all-season tire, but it is not intended to be used as one. Michelin would not endorse its use as an all season, all year long tire. I would bet money on that. It is a true winter tire, optimized for ice and snow. It has very long wet braking distances in warm weather, and poor emergency handling in the wet. Not to mention quicker wear in the heat than an AS tire. This is true of all the studded and studless winter tires, not just the Xi3. That is the tradeoff for superior ice and snow traction.

I agree that there is some tradeoff. I used Blizzaks for years, and those are really super soft to the point of being totally awful in the summer. Current technology allows for the Xice3 to barely compromise cold/hot performance in my experience. The HR speed rating means that the tire can handle 130 mph, so I don't worry about me going 80 mph sustained.
I haven't noticed the long braking distances or poor wet handling in the wet. Do you have any test data on the Xice3 about that, or are you guessing?

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
I don't know of any winter tire manufacturers who endorse using their dedicated winter tires for summer use. For that purpose, there are all-weather tires, such as the Nokian WRG3, the Toyo Celsius, the Michelin CrossClimate, etc. They are approved for summer use, but also have the snowflake symbol on the sidewall. They are essentially all-season tires with enhanced ice and snow traction.

More advancements, you've found! I'll check those out. I thought the Xice3 was a "game-changer", but I guess the polymer chemists may have some more tricks up their sleeves. Interesting stuff.
As for whether or not Michelin endorses Xice3 for hot weather, I'm sure they and other tire companies want you to change your tires seasonally to help their profits.


Originally Posted By: SubLGT
For year round use, Michelin has the Cross Climate:
http://www.michelin.com/eng/media-room/p...oint-in-history

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-CrossClimate-launched-is-this-a-game-changer.htm