Which 5W-40, if any, for Audi?
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I'm also using the 'biggie' 068 OEM oil filter. In fact, I have a stash of them that I just got in from Clair.
The criticism I hear of M1 0W-40 is that it allegedly shears down to a lower grade after 2,000 miles or so, especially in turbos.
DD
Well, M1 0W-40 actually meets the 503.01 spec. So that would seem to be a bit of a conflict with a preference for a 5W-40...
Just out of curiousity, why is the 503.01 spec important if a) I'm only using 5K OCIs and b) it's not supported in North America for the 2000 B5 A4 1.8T?
The 503.01 spec, as it relates to 1.8T engines, is for those producing over 180 hp, which the 2000 B5 A4 doesn't.
DD
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DD, VW 503.01 is for Audis with gas engines that are equipped for LongLife Service, which the US import versions are not. VW 503.01 spec oil is not better than VW 502.00 spec oil -- it's simply better suited for long drain intervals.
As for your question, you answered it yourself. Since VW 502.00 is important to you, you should go with the Elf oil, if you have access to it. I haven't tried and can't comment on the now commonly available Castrol 5W-40 that carries VW 502.00 approval, but you may want to look into it.
As for your question, you answered it yourself. Since VW 502.00 is important to you, you should go with the Elf oil, if you have access to it. I haven't tried and can't comment on the now commonly available Castrol 5W-40 that carries VW 502.00 approval, but you may want to look into it.
Right, the 503.01 isn't supported for any North American market engines. And even in Europe, the 503.01 spec isn't called for with the 2000 B5 A4.
I can get Elf over the internet, but only in 5 qt jugs, which isn't quite ideal. I also can't find the HTHS rating for the Elf, which I'd like to know before committing.
Do you know the HTHS of the Syntec 5W-40? I can't seem to find it anywhere...
DD
Mobil1 0w-40 is an excellent choice that meets all applicable VW specifications. It has posted up great UOA's time and time again. If you've had good luck with it in the past, why switch? The fact that it's rated 0W for cold starts should make this a no-brainer.
In some engines, consumption is an issue. I avoid it in the V6 Audis that I service.
As far as selecting between the VW 502 oils that EVERY oil co makes, look at the quality and modernity of the additive pack. Also you can decipher UOAs too. For instance, Belgian Syntec with magnesium additives verses something like German Syntec. No comparison at the same price point. I would not jump to use SynPower 5w-40 either. If you want to try something different, go for the BMW 0w-40...aka Castrol Formula RS.
This brings up a good point:
Given my lack of long high speed trips on an regular basis, which is a better trade-off - a 0W that will do better on cold starts, but shear more, or a 5W which will shear less, but perform less well on cold starts?
DD
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You're in San Mateo and not in North Dakota. Considering our mild temperatures, I don't think it matters at all if you use a 0W-X or 5W-X.
Sorry, I have no HTHS numbers for the Elf or Castrol 5W-40. I know a guy who uses the Elf in his Audi (2.8 V6) and he likes it a whole lot. I use M1 5W-40 in my Audi (2.8 V6).
Sorry, I have no HTHS numbers for the Elf or Castrol 5W-40. I know a guy who uses the Elf in his Audi (2.8 V6) and he likes it a whole lot. I use M1 5W-40 in my Audi (2.8 V6).
DD:
If you never really heat up your engine and never start your car below 20 Fahrenheit, ummmmm...
You don't need 0W, but it wouldn't hurt.
You don't need 5W either.
You could get by on 10WXX if you chose the right XX.
For your car, the right XX is probably either 30 or 40.
This site discusses proper viscosity for the 1.8T: http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng14.shtml
If I were you, I would happily use ANY synthetic 0W30, 0W40, 5W30, 5W40, 10W30 or 10W40.
I would probably look for something with ACEA A3 written on it for peace of mind.
DD:
If you never really heat up your engine and never start your car below 20 Fahrenheit, ummmmm...
You don't need 0W, but it wouldn't hurt.
You don't need 5W either.
You could get by on 10WXX if you chose the right XX.
For your car, the right XX is probably either 30 or 40.
This site discusses proper viscosity for the 1.8T: http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng14.shtml
If I were you, I would happily use ANY synthetic 0W30, 0W40, 5W30, 5W40, 10W30 or 10W40.
I would probably look for something with ACEA A3 written on it for peace of mind. [/QUOTE]
Well, I wouldn't say never. I do go on long twisty drives in the hills on the weekends for fun. It's probably once or twice a month.
Also, my car is chipped, which throws another wrench into the equation.
Thanks for the link, although I've read the oil article on AudiWorld before and find it less than satisfying because it completely ignores the question of VW 502 specs, as well as Audi's recent technical bulletin about oils needing a minimum HTHS of >= 3.5, potential sludging issues, etc. Given its 1999 date, it probably needs a refresh.
DD
Hi,
DD you said this;
"Given my lack of long high speed trips on an regular basis, which is a better trade-off - a 0W that will do better on cold starts, but shear more, or a 5W which will shear less, but perform less well on cold starts?"
The mis-information on here from certain individuals about 0w-40 oils shearing "excessively" is simply that - mis-information
When used in the correct application (like any lubricant) these oils are very capable of running to OCIs beyond 12k miles
Beware the BS about 0w-40 oils shearing - no evidence of excessive wear exists and it is probably the most used synthetic grade in new cars as a factory fill!
Moribundman's comments about temperatures is spot on!
Regards
Doug
DD you said this;
"Given my lack of long high speed trips on an regular basis, which is a better trade-off - a 0W that will do better on cold starts, but shear more, or a 5W which will shear less, but perform less well on cold starts?"
The mis-information on here from certain individuals about 0w-40 oils shearing "excessively" is simply that - mis-information
When used in the correct application (like any lubricant) these oils are very capable of running to OCIs beyond 12k miles
Beware the BS about 0w-40 oils shearing - no evidence of excessive wear exists and it is probably the most used synthetic grade in new cars as a factory fill!
Moribundman's comments about temperatures is spot on!
Regards
Doug
Well, in that case, it doesn't sound like there is a good reason to switch from what I'm already using (M1 0W-40)...
Unless I'm missing something important that someone wants to clue me in on.
DD
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At this point it's more about opinions. The only way to find out what oil works better (Whatever "better" means -- either regarding engine smoothness, performance gain/loss, noise, consumption) is to try out both oils. My best guess would be that oil consumption will be lower with M1 5W-40 than with M1 0W-40.
While not the Audi V6, I own a Jetta with the 2.8L VR6 engine, and have used either Mobil1 0w-40 and 5w-40 for the entire time I've owned it.
I have not done any oil analysis yet, but so far a thumbs up to Mobil1, as the engine has zero noticable oil consumption, and has been driven fairly aggressively. Compression after 70k miles is still within new specs.
In my own opinion there is no such thing as an oil that is TOO thin for cold-starts, even if you're religiously starting that cold engine when it's 80 degrees out. Furthermore as mentioned above the potential for this oil to shear out of grade is virtually non-existent, no more than any other viscosity would.
I have not done any oil analysis yet, but so far a thumbs up to Mobil1, as the engine has zero noticable oil consumption, and has been driven fairly aggressively. Compression after 70k miles is still within new specs.
In my own opinion there is no such thing as an oil that is TOO thin for cold-starts, even if you're religiously starting that cold engine when it's 80 degrees out. Furthermore as mentioned above the potential for this oil to shear out of grade is virtually non-existent, no more than any other viscosity would.
5w40 in my BMW. This oil was developed
for VW and it's TDI engines. It also meets
BMW's LL-98 spec. along with MB 229.3/1.
I think the HTHS rating is around 3.6.
Since we don't have any choices for 5w40
oils in Canada, This at least meets all
the specs for my car.
Well, this is my first post to BITOG...here goes:
I've got a 2000 A4 Avant 1.8T with 51600 miles on it. Currently I'm using M1 0W-40 and I'm in the beginnings of an Auto-Rx clean cycle.
Once the whole Auto-Rx clean and rinse treatment is done, I'm considering moving to a 5W-40 for my long term oil. I follow 5,000 mile OCIs and my driving is 50/50 split between city and short (16 mi each way) freeway commutes.
However, I'm trying to decide which 5W-40 might be best. Ideally, I'd like one that is well above the minimum HTHS of 3.5 that Audi prefers, as well as meeting the VW 502 specification.
My main priorities are engine protection, sludge avoidance, and performance. I'm not too worried about cost or mileage, although they'd be 'nice to haves'.
Top candidates:
M1 5W-40: Carries an HTHS of 4.1. But no 502 approval.
Elf Excellium LDX 5W-40: Meets 502. HTHS of ???.
Redline 5W-40: HTHS of 4.6. *Maybe* meets 502? [I can't confirm this..Redline claims factory fill replacement for VW, but I don't see any official 502 approval stamp.]
Would anyone care to offer up some opinions?
Or am I better off sticking with the M1 0W-40, which meets both the HTHS *and* VW specs?
Thanks,
DD
I've got a 2000 A4 Avant 1.8T with 51600 miles on it. Currently I'm using M1 0W-40 and I'm in the beginnings of an Auto-Rx clean cycle.
Once the whole Auto-Rx clean and rinse treatment is done, I'm considering moving to a 5W-40 for my long term oil. I follow 5,000 mile OCIs and my driving is 50/50 split between city and short (16 mi each way) freeway commutes.
However, I'm trying to decide which 5W-40 might be best. Ideally, I'd like one that is well above the minimum HTHS of 3.5 that Audi prefers, as well as meeting the VW 502 specification.
My main priorities are engine protection, sludge avoidance, and performance. I'm not too worried about cost or mileage, although they'd be 'nice to haves'.
Top candidates:
M1 5W-40: Carries an HTHS of 4.1. But no 502 approval.
Elf Excellium LDX 5W-40: Meets 502. HTHS of ???.
Redline 5W-40: HTHS of 4.6. *Maybe* meets 502? [I can't confirm this..Redline claims factory fill replacement for VW, but I don't see any official 502 approval stamp.]
Would anyone care to offer up some opinions?
Or am I better off sticking with the M1 0W-40, which meets both the HTHS *and* VW specs?
Thanks,
DD
Any 5w-40 is a good oil. One with ester base like M1 will help desludge your 1.8t, but it's incompatible with ARX. If you are using a top-notch oil anyway, don't worry too much about after ARX. Note that some oils meet VW 502 but do not meet VW 503.01, the long-life spec. A 503.01 oil would be better. Even though M1 does not carry EITHER spec, it is the "House Favourite" here and will serve you well.
Anyway, I'd be more focused on the ARXing, like using the whole 12oz bottle and considering a diesel-rated oil for flushing that does not have ester base...like Shell Rotella T synth 5w-40. Otherwise, Havoline 10w-40 would be my pick, although it will not have the diesel additives that might help the cleaning process. That would take a 15w-40 HDEO like Delo or Delvac...if you have restriced oiling lines the quite thick 15w-40 might carry a risk of low initial OP. It is summer though, I would try it.
Anyway, I'd be more focused on the ARXing, like using the whole 12oz bottle and considering a diesel-rated oil for flushing that does not have ester base...like Shell Rotella T synth 5w-40. Otherwise, Havoline 10w-40 would be my pick, although it will not have the diesel additives that might help the cleaning process. That would take a 15w-40 HDEO like Delo or Delvac...if you have restriced oiling lines the quite thick 15w-40 might carry a risk of low initial OP. It is summer though, I would try it.
Just curious, but why would you not want to continue with the M1 0W-40 since it meets the specs?
We own an 02 A4 with the 1.8T and use this oil at no more than 5K OCI's, with the larger oil filter as now spec'd by Audi/VW. Also use 6 oz of Lube Control at every oil change.
I based the choice of this oil and the OCI on recomendation of BITOG search/reading. Other than personal preferences, I did not really find that anything else would do a better job of protection.
We own an 02 A4 with the 1.8T and use this oil at no more than 5K OCI's, with the larger oil filter as now spec'd by Audi/VW. Also use 6 oz of Lube Control at every oil change.
I based the choice of this oil and the OCI on recomendation of BITOG search/reading. Other than personal preferences, I did not really find that anything else would do a better job of protection.
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