Where 'oh where has the OHV gone..

[Duffman77]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT


Where an engine makes power is determined primarily by intake manifold runner length/cross section, intake port volume/cross section, valve diameter, cam design and installed centerlines (excluding VVT/VCT). You can make a DOHC 4V a low-rpm stump puller just as easily as you can make a pushrod motor a high-rpm screamer with a gutless bottom-end.


+1
Its all about hom much air you are moving into the cylinder.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
The LS engines are compact, where Ford's OHC engines are very wide. (The DOHC is wider than a Boss 429!)


4.6 DOHC - 26-5/8" wide
5.4 DOHC - 28-1/4" wide
BOSS 429 - 29.0" wide

Modular dimensions here: http://www.sullivanperformance.com/yvs450/tech/tech1.htm

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
No, not a 302, the new 5.0 DOHC. Won't begin to fit a Miata, it's WAY too wide.


Sounds like more hearsay.



The 4.6s are wider for sure, but they are also shorter than an LSx (lengthwise, 23-5/8" vs. 28" for LS1).

 

[Duffman77]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
The LS engines are compact, where Ford's OHC engines are very wide. (The DOHC is wider than a Boss 429!)


4.6 DOHC - 26-5/8" wide
5.4 DOHC - 28-1/4" wide
BOSS 429 - 29.0" wide

Modular dimensions here: http://www.sullivanperformance.com/yvs450/tech/tech1.htm


Hmm, I had though I had heard that the 4.6 was the widest engine ever put into a Mustang when it first came out.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Duffman77
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
The LS engines are compact, where Ford's OHC engines are very wide. (The DOHC is wider than a Boss 429!)


4.6 DOHC - 26-5/8" wide
5.4 DOHC - 28-1/4" wide
BOSS 429 - 29.0" wide

Modular dimensions here: http://www.sullivanperformance.com/yvs450/tech/tech1.htm


Hmm, I had though I had heard that the 4.6 was the widest engine ever put into a Mustang when it first came out.


Widest small block.

 

[Duffman77]

Quick internet search and I came across 2 links saying it is 30"?

http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-326619.html
http://www.themustangshop.com/modswap.cfm

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Duffman77
Quick internet search and I came across 2 links saying it is 30"?

http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-326619.html
http://www.themustangshop.com/modswap.cfm


30" is wrong for cam cover-to-cam cover width, which is the way John Kaase measured the Boss '9. 30" may be the exhaust manifold flange width.

 

[ls1mike]

Big air pump the more air you can get in the better. Does not matter how you do it.

 

[Duffman77]

Best source that the DOHC is 30" wide
http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/tipsPDF/EngineDimensions.pdf

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Duffman77
Best source that the DOHC is 30" wide
http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/tipsPDF/EngineDimensions.pdf


It's not 30" wide cam cover-to-cam cover.

That crate measures 32" wide externally and the 4V cam covers have ~2 inches of clearance on both sides of the lid internally, I built the crate and have to BoLs to prove it's external dimensions.

 

[Ben99GT]

It should also be noted that Ford Racing's 4.6 dimensions are for fully dressed crate engines (with exhaust manifolds) while the listed 302 dimensions are for long-blocks. The EFI 302 (including intake manifold) is taller than the Mustang 4.6 DOHC.

Sullivan's numbers are spot on for a bare long-block (with cam and timing chain covers on).

Kaase himself measured a Boss 429 at 29" wide valve cover to valve cover.

Simply put, the Boss 429 is wider than a 4.6 DOHC.

 

[Mitch Alsup]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
You can make a DOHC 4V a low-rpm stump puller just as easily as you can make a pushrod motor a high-rpm screamer with a gutless bottom-end.


Theoretically, you can make a DOHC motor a stump puller. But having watched this since 1965, I am yet to see one done this way.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Mitch Alsup
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
You can make a DOHC 4V a low-rpm stump puller just as easily as you can make a pushrod motor a high-rpm screamer with a gutless bottom-end.


Theoretically, you can make a DOHC motor a stump puller. But having watched this since 1965, I am yet to see one done this way.


Because, why would you? When high, low end torque can be achived with a single Cam.

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but V engines lend themselves very well to a Cam in block layout, as one Cam can serve Two banks. Providing you go for a simple Bath tub or Wedge head combustion chamber. If you want a Hemi things can get complicated.

 

[Duffman77]

Originally Posted By: Mitch Alsup
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
You can make a DOHC 4V a low-rpm stump puller just as easily as you can make a pushrod motor a high-rpm screamer with a gutless bottom-end.


Theoretically, you can make a DOHC motor a stump puller. But having watched this since 1965, I am yet to see one done this way.


You are not looking hard enough.

www.frontier-intl.com/Big%20Bore%20Comparison%20Guide.pdf

 

[Duffman77]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
It should also be noted that Ford Racing's 4.6 dimensions are for fully dressed crate engines (with exhaust manifolds) while the listed 302 dimensions are for long-blocks. The EFI 302 (including intake manifold) is taller than the Mustang 4.6 DOHC.

Sullivan's numbers are spot on for a bare long-block (with cam and timing chain covers on).

Kaase himself measured a Boss 429 at 29" wide valve cover to valve cover.

Simply put, the Boss 429 is wider than a 4.6 DOHC.


Well exhaust manifolds count!!!!

Goto google images and put in "boss 429 engine" and you will see that the valve covers are the widest point on that engine.

 

[Shannow]

It's an internet argument...the fact that the engine needs to run is irrelevant...

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Duffman77
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
It should also be noted that Ford Racing's 4.6 dimensions are for fully dressed crate engines (with exhaust manifolds) while the listed 302 dimensions are for long-blocks. The EFI 302 (including intake manifold) is taller than the Mustang 4.6 DOHC.

Sullivan's numbers are spot on for a bare long-block (with cam and timing chain covers on).

Kaase himself measured a Boss 429 at 29" wide valve cover to valve cover.

Simply put, the Boss 429 is wider than a 4.6 DOHC.


Well exhaust manifolds count!!!!

Goto google images and put in "boss 429 engine" and you will see that the valve covers are the widest point on that engine.

I see at least two things that would make the installed width of the Boss 9 greater than its 29" cover-to-cover width, and I'm not talking about the clutch fork.

Gotta keep the measurements apples to apples, cover to cover the Boss 9 is certainly wider.