Where Is The EV Sweet Spot?

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Where is the EV sweet spot?

The exact same place where you'll find a sweet spot on a cell phone.

About 10 years ago I got a Galaxy Note II from a guy who worked as an execuitive at Home Depot. They had given it to him with all the bells and whistles, brand new, for about $750 back then (about $1300 in 2024 dollars).

Two years later when it was no longer popular or on the cutting edge of cell phone technology, he sold it to me for only $200 (Thank you Craigslist!). I even got a nice protective case, a side phone holster (which was all the rage 10 years ago), and durable chargers for the phone and car.

I kept it for five years and sold it for $100. Then I bought a couple of small beater phones that cost me nothing in the end over the next year. When I saw the right opportunity? I did the same thing.

This time it was an LG G5 that was nearly $700 brand new. This one cost me only $180 and came with a boatload of extras. Four years later? I sold it for $100.

It cost me less than $200 to have a perfectly nice cell phone for nearly 10 years. With a perfectly nice EV? It's the same exact formula. Unless you're a hardcore EV guy who likes blowing your financial brains out for the technology or the coolness factor.

Do your bank account a favor. Don't be that guy. He's a schmuck! Instead get an EV that will do the job perfectly well for five years. Let the fashionista take the hit.

Do you have a garage? Is a lot of your driving in-town? This 2015 Nissan LEAF is the rolling version of a high quality, low cost cell phone An enjoyable EV without the high cost and wealth destruction that comes with 'newness'.

Right now I have a 2015 Nissan LEAF S that has under 32,000 miles on it and 12 out of 12 bars thanks to it being equipped with the durable 'Lizard' battery. The range is a bit over 80 miles. But if you have a garage and are willing to set the timer so that it keeps performing at an 80% to 20% cycle, this LEAF with will comfortably give you all the in-town driving you realistically would ever want or need.

The price at my dealership near Atlanta? $7995 and if my customer qualifies for the 30% used car tax credit... it ends up costing them just under $5600. There are other EVs and PHEVs that have already fallen off the radar which offer similar value propositions. The Honda Clarity, Honda Insight, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, and Chevy Bolt are all classic examples I see every week at the wholesale auctions.

So let's say you kept this LEAF for five years of in-town driving at 8,000 miles a year, and then sold it for $3500 with around 75,000 miles on it? The cost of ownership? Insanely low. By my calculations it ranges to about 20% to 30% of the average.

Less than $500 a year in depreciation ($420).

Charging costs that are 50% to 80% cheaper than gas, and if you are lucky enough to live where electric companies offer free overnight charging? You're easily saving over $5,000 a year in fueling alone over five years.

That's exactly where the sweet spot is in today's EV market. Buy a well kept model that fits your needs after the fleeting popularity has subsided. Keep it for above five years. Sell it at a reasonable price. Rinse! Repeat!

And the punchline is that this method works for a non-EV too. It's just that government subsidies and media driven unpopularity are making some EVs cheaper than where they would normally be.
 
Seems as though you have really thought this out well. And I think that if people do their own math, they could come up with similar dollars such as you did. Well done! (y)
 
I can kind of see why the Leaf is cheap though, its a pretty small group of people it works for. You need to live in a small to medium size town, work in the same town, have charging available at home, have a second car with range to leave town, not be in too cold a climate as the S model just has resistance heat... But if it works for you, it is a pretty good deal!

I'm kind of thinking of a used plug in hybrid, as a short range EV isn't really going to cut it for us even as a second car. The numbers work for something like the Ford C-max energi, or a Volt, if the car doesn't need major drivetrain related repairs to 12 years or 200k miles or beyond.
 
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I can kind of see why the Leaf is cheap though, its a pretty small group of people it works for. You need to live in a small to medium size town, work in the same town, have charging available at home, have a second car with range to leave town, not be in too cold a climate as the S model just has resistance heat... But if it works for you, it is a pretty good deal!
The small 'town' we live in is metro-Atlanta. I think we have roughly a bit over 100,000 people in my area within a 10 mile radius of our home.

But I think your main point is right. If you live where it's rural or the great white north and drive a lot, an EV isn't for you.
 
Where is the EV sweet spot?

The exact same place where you'll find a sweet spot on a cell phone.

About 10 years ago I got a Galaxy Note II from a guy who worked as an execuitive at Home Depot. They had given it to him with all the bells and whistles, brand new, for about $750 back then (about $1300 in 2024 dollars).

Two years later when it was no longer popular or on the cutting edge of cell phone technology, he sold it to me for only $200 (Thank you Craigslist!). I even got a nice protective case, a side phone holster (which was all the rage 10 years ago), and durable chargers for the phone and car.

I kept it for five years and sold it for $100. Then I bought a couple of small beater phones that cost me nothing in the end over the next year. When I saw the right opportunity? I did the same thing.

This time it was an LG G5 that was nearly $700 brand new. This one cost me only $180 and came with a boatload of extras. Four years later? I sold it for $100.

It cost me less than $200 to have a perfectly nice cell phone for nearly 10 years. With a perfectly nice EV? It's the same exact formula. Unless you're a hardcore EV guy who likes blowing your financial brains out for the technology or the coolness factor.

Do your bank account a favor. Don't be that guy. He's a schmuck! Instead get an EV that will do the job perfectly well for five years. Let the fashionista take the hit.

Do you have a garage? Is a lot of your driving in-town? This 2015 Nissan LEAF is the rolling version of a high quality, low cost cell phone An enjoyable EV without the high cost and wealth destruction that comes with 'newness'.

Right now I have a 2015 Nissan LEAF S that has under 32,000 miles on it and 12 out of 12 bars thanks to it being equipped with the durable 'Lizard' battery. The range is a bit over 80 miles. But if you have a garage and are willing to set the timer so that it keeps performing at an 80% to 20% cycle, this LEAF with will comfortably give you all the in-town driving you realistically would ever want or need.

The price at my dealership near Atlanta? $7995 and if my customer qualifies for the 30% used car tax credit... it ends up costing them just under $5600. There are other EVs and PHEVs that have already fallen off the radar which offer similar value propositions. The Honda Clarity, Honda Insight, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, and Chevy Bolt are all classic examples I see every week at the wholesale auctions.

So let's say you kept this LEAF for five years of in-town driving at 8,000 miles a year, and then sold it for $3500 with around 75,000 miles on it? The cost of ownership? Insanely low. By my calculations it ranges to about 20% to 30% of the average.

Less than $500 a year in depreciation ($420).

Charging costs that are 50% to 80% cheaper than gas, and if you are lucky enough to live where electric companies offer free overnight charging? You're easily saving over $5,000 a year in fueling alone over five years.

That's exactly where the sweet spot is in today's EV market. Buy a well kept model that fits your needs after the fleeting popularity has subsided. Keep it for above five years. Sell it at a reasonable price. Rinse! Repeat!

And the punchline is that this method works for a non-EV too. It's just that government subsidies and media driven unpopularity are making some EVs cheaper than where they would normally be.
For me, the sweet spot was the EV6 GT / BMW i4 M50i / MYP. I went with the EV6 GT because its engineering impressed me the most. All 3 were the same price when I bought.

Then you had cars like the Model S Plaid, which are pretty sick in their own right, the Bolt and Leaf, which are pretty bland in their own right (but CHEAP and effective).

So why do I think I landed in the sweet spot?

The tech and performance of the EV6 GT is still top notch, even going into 2025 models. Its charging speed is still very near the top of the ladder, price not even a factor. The performance is still very good, outpacing everything except for the upper trim Taycans and the MSP w/Trackpack and of course the new HI5N. The cost was $63K, so it wasn't cheap, but it also hasn't lost $100K in value like a Taycan Turbo S has, either (2 months ago Carvana offered me $38K for it with 24K miles).

How will it age in 5 years? Well, 230+kw charging (10-80% in <20 minutes) is still going to be VERY solid performance. Even if they get chargers and cars that can do that in half the time, 8 more minutes per stop isn't going to kill me. It's not like a Mach E that takes 45 minutes or something. 1/4 mile times of low 11 seconds at 120+ trap speed is always going to be quick. Maybe not compared to the latest and greatest hotness, but I've had it for a year now, and I really am not stressed about "wanting more", for once. The range, in the summer I average 230-250mi on a charge to 100%, and in winter 160-180mi. This is where I think that my EV is going to really "date" itself in the coming years. However, while I may take a retained value hit due to this, functionally, even with 40% degradation, it will still do what I need it to do, and I have literally never heard of a current gen EV getting degraded that bad without having a true mechanical failure. Most 100K mile EV6's that have been tested, are between 4-8% degradation at present.

So for me, that's the sweet spot. Performance I will not grow tired of, even if it is surpassed, charging speed that doesn't burden me (I have often on road trips had the car finish charging before I was done eating), and the engineering behind the car is really solid. The only real failure is the ICCU, and HmG has released a software update to prevent that, as its a software glitch in the voltage regulation that causes it. No other issues with the car really have come to light in the 2 years it's been on sale.

To me, an EV is a "buy it and keep it until the wheels fall off" solution, so if you don't get something you love the hell out of, you've already missed that sweet spot. Leasing an EV makes no sense to me.
 
To me, an EV is a "buy it and keep it until the wheels fall off" solution, so if you don't get something you love the hell out of, you've already missed that sweet spot. Leasing an EV makes no sense to me.

That is the smart way to operate any quality car. Lowest cost of ownership, and generally best results. EV's may change the equation a bit though, as the technology was, at least for a while, rapidly evolving.
 
I bought my Mach E early on so the price was not too bad, and I got the $ 7,500 tax credit. As Ford decided they had the winner of the century, they kept raising the price. Now, reality has hit Ford and they keep dropping the price. In the meantime, mine works fine and charges in the garage for almost nothing. When it stops working I will get rid of it. The fact is, hybrids make way more sense. Especially hybrids that can be charged in the garage. Locally, you can drive them on battery only and use the engine for longer trips.
 
As you say, it changes up in the great white north. Cold temps and road salt. Nothing lasts forever, unless if you baby it and don't drive in winter. I get hit by that and the fact that nothing is local to me, it's 10 miles to anything. Ergo, it might be a while before I go EV.

But otherwise, yup, I like to get my electronics used and try to get my cars used now too (market is wonky right now). And stay content with a couple generations behind. All that new tech today will be come old some day and cheap. Just stay a bit behind the curve and let someone else take the hit.

But the used car market... it's one thing to spend $200 on a used phone and find out you got a lemon (unlikely if it turns on and gets past boot). It's not that hard to buy someone's problem child car for $10k... or $15k... or $20k if you're not careful. And unlike electronics, the problem might take a while before it is exposed (hard to test a/c in the middle of winter, for example, or a bearing noise that only shows up after you've driven for more than 30 minutes).
 
The cost was $63K, so it wasn't cheap, but it also hasn't lost $100K in value like a Taycan Turbo S has, either (2 months ago Carvana offered me $38K for it with 24K miles).
You've lost 40% or $1.04/mile driven in how long of ownership? How does that compare to a $63k comparable age and miles ICE car?

To me, an EV is a "buy it and keep it until the wheels fall off" solution, so if you don't get something you love the hell out of, you've already missed that sweet spot. Leasing an EV makes no sense to me.
Agree that "drive it til the wheels fall off" is lowest cost of ownership but few actually do it. I don't and you don't seem to. I don't need to love the heck out of a car or need to do 0-60 in 3 seconds to get groceries or take a dog to the vet or whatever. I love a vehicle that matches my needs, if my needs change not afraid to change vehicles.
 
Sweet spot is EV purchase cost the same as a gasoline model for same size vehicle and capabilities.

I still dont think some in the forums get it. The public wants convenience so dont bring up the cost of gasoline, focus on purchase price. Even with the same purchase price (which currently isnt possible) the majority will still chose gasoline for a primary vehicle.

Gasoline cost is a poor excuse to pay more for a car as people gladly pay for convenience.
Never mind the slippery slope that after the sale do they realize how much more they pay in insurance for an EV
 
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The sweet spot price wise on on something like a Leaf doesn't get me to work reliably. I don't get a "sorry I can't make it in". Two of those in a short period of time and I don't work there any more. I get a call and have 2 hours to get to work. What that means is I can have a relatively new or new EV(with home charging) or similar ICE vehicle that is reliable and easy enough to work on in a pinch. I love cars and I want fun cars, but with my requirements as transportation that makes a fairly narrow range of what works for me when a reasonable price cap is applied.

Sweet spot is EV purchase cost the same as a gasoline model for same size vehicle and capabilities.

I still dont think some in the forums get it. The public wants convenience so dont bring up the cost of gasoline, focus on purchase price. Even with the same purchase price (which currently isnt possible) the majority will still chose gasoline for a primary vehicle.

Gasoline cost is a poor excuse to pay more for a car as people gladly pay for convenience.
Never mind the slippery slope that after the sale do they realize how much more they pay in insurance for an EV
People tend to buy first and ask questions later. A cost is a cost, but that's hard to get some to understand. Sure ICE can and likely will be more convenient, but like you said at a cost to operate. That's why we get these wild swings at times where large vehicles get traded for small fuel sippers with gas prices.

The days of going out to buy a new Geo Metro is gone though. We're a car centric society that has become a truck centric society and it all costs money. I don't really trust the financial decisions of the average consumer when you hear the average debt levels. Insurance is definitely a cost too. I think anyone that drives off in a new vehicle without knowing all of these costs upfront are doing themselves a disservice and I'm willing to bet this is way more common than it should be.
 
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