When would you not want an ADBV?

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by madeej11
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by jayjr1105
Originally Posted by CT8
What is the filters mounting position?

Vertical

Mounted like this the filter will not drain dry but basically sit full of oil till next startup.

ADBV not remotely needed in this orientation.

UD

Agree with UD. How would the ADBV in a vertically mounted oil filter at the bottom of the engine stop oil from draining from the galleries? Doesn't make sense. I would say that in this case it doesn't really need one. Basically it's to stop the filter from draining dry when mounted other than in a threads up vertical position.


The oil in the galleries is ABOVE the oil filter. Any oil above the filter will want to drain down until the head (elevation) pressure above the filter is equalized.

 

[4wd]

"Head" just being short for hydrostatic head … as mentioned already this is all about hydrostatic U-tube principle.
ADBV ? Keeps the long side of the U-tube full for instant delivery of oil to the top of the engine.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted by 4WD
"Head" just being short for hydrostatic head … as mentioned already this is all about hydrostatic U-tube principle.
ADBV ? Keeps the long side of the U-tube full for instant delivery of oil to the top of the engine.



Exactly!

 

[madeej11]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Read the section from Fram. It's to keep the oil from leaking down from the galleries, not just to keep the oil from leaking out of the filter. A vertical, thread up filter would not help to avoid the leak down from the oil galleries unless it had a anti-drain back valve.

Exactly ... there is a lot of oil in the galleries above the oil filter location. Thinking that an ADBV is not needed with base up mounted oil filters is still a big misconception (among others related to oil filters).

I stand corrected. You guys are absolutely right. Thanks.

 

[Sayjac]

As accurately noted there are some thread end up applications where an adbv is not spec'd (OP Mazda), not required. Confirming that, the pic below shows the previously mentioned Fram EG 9837 (right) for GM vehicles which have vertical thread end up orientation. The Tough Guard 9837 version has the same no adbv design. Comment provided by former Fram rep regarding the application here , "That model does nit [sic] have a adbv because the OE and OES filters do not have them." As can be seen with FPS/(XG) equivalent (left), adding an adbv doesn't hurt anything.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Yep … That's going to be the taller side of the hydrostatic U-tube. When I pull a filter off an L83, it takes a quart of oil to refill. That little filter might hold 1/3 of that.





I doubt it even holds that much oil. This is a very small filter.


Edit to add question: Does the size / capacity figure in the decision to not have the ADBV?

 

[Sayjac]

Quote
….. Does the size / capacity figure in the decision to not have the ADBV?
While the OPs Mazda filter is a small filter application, the GM filters with no adbv are 4-4.5" in length, that's a relatively long PC filter application. What the two have in common is orientation, so my speculation is it's more about that.

 

[tundraotto]

I would offer that not having an ADBV specced could be determined by the desired less impeded oil flow - ie get the (usually 'thin' 0W-20 etc) oil to the parts quicker - rather than trying to keep it there while the engine is off.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by tundraotto
I would offer that not having an ADBV specced could be determined by the desired less impeded oil flow - ie get the (usually 'thin' 0W-20 etc) oil to the parts quicker - rather than trying to keep it there while the engine is off.

No, that is not correct.

 

[tundraotto]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by tundraotto
I would offer that not having an ADBV specced could be determined by the desired less impeded oil flow - ie get the (usually 'thin' 0W-20 etc) oil to the parts quicker - rather than trying to keep it there while the engine is off.

No, that is not correct.


Please illuminate us with your wisdom on why not, since it's not presented as opinion.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by tundraotto
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by tundraotto
I would offer that not having an ADBV specced could be determined by the desired less impeded oil flow - ie get the (usually 'thin' 0W-20 etc) oil to the parts quicker - rather than trying to keep it there while the engine is off.
No, that is not correct.
Please illuminate us with your wisdom on why not, since it's not presented as opinion.

My response was exactly in line with the level of technical argument you presented. If you can illuminate me with anything technical to support what you said then I'll try and respond in kind.

 

[4wd]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by 4WD
Yep … That's going to be the taller side of the hydrostatic U-tube. When I pull a filter off an L83, it takes a quart of oil to refill. That little filter might hold 1/3 of that.


I doubt it even holds that much oil. This is a very small filter.

Edit to add question: Does the size / capacity figure in the decision to not have the ADBV?


Could be, right when the gasket comes off seat it's a pretty good flow coming from the oil galleries …
It seems like more and faster than previous 5.3L's … but they used thicker oil …
Maybe I'm having an optical contusion 🤪

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by tundraotto
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by tundraotto
I would offer that not having an ADBV specced could be determined by the desired less impeded oil flow - ie get the (usually 'thin' 0W-20 etc) oil to the parts quicker - rather than trying to keep it there while the engine is off.

No, that is not correct.

Please illuminate us with your wisdom on why not, since it's not presented as opinion.


Same volume of oil flow forced through the filter and engine due the positive displacement oil pump ... always seems to be one of the most misunderstood operations of an engine oiling system. The oiling system in an engine is not like the water system in your house.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Before we go off topic on the rate of flow of 0w20 oil on a cold start, please will everyone reflect that oil pumps have a spring loaded pressure dump valve. If they sense the pressure is getting high the valve dumps oil back to the oil pan. A positive displacement pump with an active dump valve is no longer acting like a positive displacement pump.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Before we go off topic on the rate of flow of 0w20 oil on a cold start, please will everyone reflect that oil pumps have a spring loaded pressure dump valve. If they sense the pressure is getting high the valve dumps oil back to the oil pan. A positive displacement pump with an active dump valve is no longer acting like a positive displacement pump.

Well, even 0W-20 is pretty thick in cold temperatures. The way you ensure the oil pump isn't hitting pressure relief is to not rev the engine very high until the oil has warmed up pretty good. You can probably also get an oil pump to hit pressure relief with 0W-20, just takes a little more engine revs.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Good enough for now.

 

[jayjr1105]

So vertical mount (screw upward) never needs adbv no exceptions? Because my Odyssey also mounts the same way as my Mazda.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by jayjr1105
So vertical mount (screw upward) never needs adbv no exceptions? Because my Odyssey also mounts the same way as my Mazda.


Yes, exceptions like explained in this thread.

 

[DudeNiceRide]

Originally Posted by Sayjac
You would not need an adbv where the vehicle manufacturer doesn't use one from the factory. That would be some vertical thread end up orientation applications, like Mazda. Interestingly though some GM vehicles come minus adbv with factory filter, however the over counter replacement ACDelco has one. So that aligns with, even where adbv not spec'd from factory, having one never hurts anything. Vice versa, not having one where spec'd, not true.


Not nec. true. Sometimes the engine mfg'ers will back-fill the lube system. Cannot back-fill a filter with a check valve in it.

 

[Sayjac]

Never seen nor heard of PC vehicles back filled at factory reason for no adbv. Would need specific example(s) with authoritative citing and relavance to topic Mazda and GM application. Answer as given to OP with links and examples accurate as posted. The topic Mazda and GM vehicles with sourced reference from Fram rep confirmation of those applications having no adbv.