Wheel bearing/hub assembly help

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: jrmason

Warranty is not an indication of quality, take a look at all the lifetime warranty junk the big parts chain stores sell everyday.

Exactly, and those Timken hub/bearing assemblies are excellent quality.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: NMBurb02

... it already starting to make noise even though my mechanic could not find any play. That was about 20 months/24k miles ago and the front passenger side has a noticeable "whop whop" at low speeds and humming/growling at higher speeds once again. The noises increase when turning either way, leading me to believe both have gone bad. However, when I checked the wheels for play today, there was none!

Failed bearings will make noise long before play develops. You description of the noise matches what most people say when they have a bad bearing, so I believe you're on the right track there. As to why you're experiencing this multiple time, this is hard to say. Here is a list of things to consider: - overtightening the hub nut - hammering on the hub - nicking the seals - cheap aftermarket bearings (I don't trust anything other than OEM) It is true that removing the engine grounding strap can cause bearing failure from electrical erosion. The most famous case I know of is the early Omni/Horizon models of 1978 that were recalled because of grounding strap corrosion. Forensic examination of the failed bearings would help reveal the cause of failure. Unfortunately, a comprehensive examination is beyond the availability for most people.

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: jrmason

Warranty is not an indication of quality, take a look at all the lifetime warranty junk the big parts chain stores sell everyday. They can get away with longer warranties because tylically they have lower overhead costs.

That's why I said "can" (I almost italicized that word for emphasis) and "reputable" (meaning having a reputation for not being a bottom of the barrel manufacturer/supplier). Timken, SKF, and ACDelco are known for quality but I think the companies' various warranty policies speak to the confidences they have in their products. And knowing the tendencies of GPs to eat bearings (including a Timken that is less than two years old), I would rather have that peace of mind knowing that I have three years of warranty than save a few bucks and leave myself so open to getting bit or spend much more for little, if any, quality improvement with a shorter warranty that experience has thus taught me (and others have shared) may be inadequate. And if the ACDelco parts were warrantied for much longer on a new car, why is the aftermarket warranty (for parts and workmanship, not installation) so much shorter if I am supposed to be getting an OEM part? And if I have to go to the dealer to get a true OEM and spend an arm and a leg for it, I would rather go cheaper and replace them every two to three years.

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: Kestas

As to why you're experiencing this multiple time, this is hard to say. Here is a list of things to consider: - overtightening the hub nut - hammering on the hub - nicking the seals - cheap aftermarket bearings (I don't trust anything other than OEM)

And that (along with saving a boatload of money) is why I plan on doing it myself this time.

Originally Posted By: Kestas

It is true that removing the engine grounding strap can cause bearing failure from electrical erosion. The most famous case I know of is the early Omni/Horizon models of 1978 that were recalled because of grounding strap corrosion.

Oh, so that is what Chris142's ground comment meant! I admit that he lost me there due to my own ignorance, so I decided to ignore it. I will check for proper grounding. The wheel speed sensor wires broke a few months back and I just repaired them yesterday. Could that broken circuit or the bare wire ends hanging out in the breeze contribute to electrical erosion? I am functionally illiterate when it comes to electricity, so feel free to laugh if that question is ridiculous.

 

[NMBurb02]

I want to add the following to my response to jrmason, but my edit window for that post has closed: I also do not put much faith in lifetime warranties on low cost and generally disposable items that are manufactured in third world (oops, I meant "developing") countries where the bottom line is better served by replacing junk with like junk in the hopes that the customer will not pursue a warranty claim in the first place, will eventually give up on getting warrantied replacements, or will sell/give away the item before it fails (again). But it is different with well known US manufacturers who are trying to sell on quality rather than lowest price or convenience and the presence and/or terms of a warranty can (there's that word again!) play into my ultimate buying decision, although it is not a first-line filter. Edit: And I apologize for that bit of a rant that hasn't added much to this thread.

 

[GMBoy]

About the comments saying to buy the AC DELCO units, which are $50 more: 1. AC DELCO does not make parts. NONE. They are various suppliers goods repacked in an AC DELCO box. 2. In most cases, TIMKEN is the OEM on a GM vehicle and they are a good quality part. 3. Duralast and other cheapies are not worth the expense. 4.I would by the Timken part. Fair price and will last atleast as long as the OEM provided you install it properly. Proper torque is critical on the hub nut.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

2. In most cases, TIMKEN is the OEM on a GM vehicle and they are a good quality part.

Yeah buddy!! What he said!! Even though the OP was ignoring me, I was right the whole time!!

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

Proper torque is critical on the hub nut.

I have read that several times. My torque wrench is a pretty inexpensive made in China unit with a 10 ft-lb to 150 ft-lb range. I have had it for less than one year, used it only a handful of times, don't let it get knocked around, and store it on its lowest setting. Should that be good enough for dialing in the correct torque? Also, the FSM says to use new bolts and driveshaft nut upon install. The driveshaft nut should be no problem, but where can I get the bearing/hub assembly bolts? They will not come with the new unit and I cannot find them listed anywhere.

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

2. In most cases, TIMKEN is the OEM on a GM vehicle and they are a good quality part.

Yeah buddy!! What he said!! Even though the OP was ignoring me, I was right the whole time!!

I haven't been ignoring you, it's just that the 20 month/24k mile bad hub that is coming off is a Timken, which was (and still is) causing me to lean toward the SKF.

 

[jrmason]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4

Originally Posted By: NMBurb02

I was wondering about that. Rockauto has Timkens for $91, SKFs for $104, and ACDelcos (listing says "GM Original Equipment") for $158, with similar but slightly lower prices on Amazon. So is the ACDelco worth the extra $54-67 each?

I bought the Timkens for my Buick and they have been excellent. They even said USA on the box.

Hmm, the last 2 sets of timkens I bought had china stamped right on the housing. Really surprised me because there has been a timken manufacturing plant near me in Canton as long as I can remember. timken have always returned me decent service and it's no surprise they supply AC Delco. I realize anything stamped AC Delco is simply a rebadged part. Global manufactiring at it's finest. I believe skf is a swedish bearing.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: NMBurb02

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

Proper torque is critical on the hub nut.

I have read that several times. My torque wrench is a pretty inexpensive made in China unit with a 10 ft-lb to 150 ft-lb range. I have had it for less than one year, used it only a handful of times, don't let it get knocked around, and store it on its lowest setting. Should that be good enough for dialing in the correct torque? Also, the FSM says to use new bolts and driveshaft nut upon install. The driveshaft nut should be no problem, but where can I get the bearing/hub assembly bolts? They will not come with the new unit and I cannot find them listed anywhere.

Your torque wrench should be good enough to do the job. It will atleast put you in the safe range. You definetly need to use a new hub nut because they are torque-to-yield nuts and are a true 1 time use fastener. The hub bolts, however, can be reused with loctite. I know of no one who replaced these bolts when doing hubs - me included. Just clean them well, apply loctite and re-install.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

1. AC DELCO does not make parts. NONE. They are various suppliers goods repacked in an AC DELCO box.

Worse yet, AC Delco has a "service grade" line that's on par with Chinese Driveworks type white box stuff in price. EG rotors for a buick lesabre for $25 shipped on Amazon. Not a slam on them, but if they work as well as factory GM parts, thank your deity of choice. I put said rotors on my mother in law's car, and mentione they were AC Delco parts, and she sold it for other reasons before any problems could develop. She was warm and fuzzy, she thinks I'm cheap to a fault, and that's all that mattered. FWIW I reuse GM hub nuts all the time. They don't show signs of being one-time-use, though I'd defer to a FSM that says they are. I am aware of VW/Audi nuts definitely stretching and deforming.

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: jrmason

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4

Originally Posted By: NMBurb02

I was wondering about that. Rockauto has Timkens for $91, SKFs for $104, and ACDelcos (listing says "GM Original Equipment") for $158, with similar but slightly lower prices on Amazon. So is the ACDelco worth the extra $54-67 each?

I bought the Timkens for my Buick and they have been excellent. They even said USA on the box.

Hmm, the last 2 sets of timkens I bought had china stamped right on the housing. Really surprised me because there has been a timken manufacturing plant near me in Canton as long as I can remember. timken have always returned me decent service and it's no surprise they supply AC Delco. I realize anything stamped AC Delco is simply a rebadged part. Global manufactiring at it's finest. I believe skf is a swedish bearing.

Reading the most recent reviews and customer questions on Amazon for the particular parts numbers I need, it looks like the Timkens are now made in Korea and the SKF are US-made.

 

[Kestas]

The big name manufacturers make aftermarket parts as well as OEM parts. Their aftermarket parts are sometimes made to different quality standards than their OEM parts. This is reflected in their warranty. Keep that in mind when choosing a hub bearing. Sometimes, "made in USA" simply means "assembled in USA." Your torque wrench should be fine for the hub nut. Some people just air-impact them on, which begets problems.