What's going on with gas prices?

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None of this is rocket science.

Many, perhaps most, retail outlets do not own their gas and tanks, lines, pumps, etc., because of the significant cost involved in the facility and gasoline inventory.

If you don't own your stuff, the guy who does tells you what to sell his gas for, and sends a commission check for the sales, and you don't have to tie up hundreds of thousands of dollars of your own money, a significant portion of which is in a highly price volatile and sensitive commodity. When gas was thirty or forty cents a gallon wholesale and the EPA was just hatched, you could afford to price war. Those days are LONG GONE. Federal and state regulation has run most people out of business. This is why there is no longer a gas station on every corner.

If you don't want to be in bed with a big company that can buy and sell you and never know it bought anything, and own your own stuff, your supplier will send you wholesale price updates at least daily, often several times a day, or even an hour, if the price is volatile. You price your gas as you see fit, bearing in mind gas sales are extremely price sensitive, and keeping in mind any statutes on the books in the subject jurisdiction controlling anti competitive trade practices. Generally, it is an anti competitive trade practice to sell something for less than it costs, absent special or specific circumstances. It should be obvious that this prevents the guys who can lose money the longest from running the few little guys left out of business.

If the price goes up, it is prudent to increase the price immediately, because you have to have $$$ to replace the current inventory as it sells.

If the replacement price goes down, you hang on to the price as long as you can to mitigate the potential or actual loss from those times you had gas in the ground that cost more than you could sell it for, because of the price sensitive nature of the commodity.

Around here, at least one company seems to price their retail product on the basis of the cost of what they have in the ground at any given time, as opposed to replacement cost. They are too low when others are high, and too high when everyone else is low. This is not the norm, and probably an accounting nightmare.

It is still a somewhat free country. Anyone who has the means to do so can get into the business, and price as they see fit, again observing any controlling statutes on anti competitive practices. Or they can talk about buying an old corvette and complain. Every year.
 
What can we do about gas prices? Just be happy that the frackers have upended the production cartel and are returning oil production closer to a free market. Accept a little more pollution if you want prices to fall in California ; all they have to do is stop having so many special blends and go with a standardized one.

The average consumer can buy a hybrid getting 40-50 MPG, or an EV and gas pricing becomes a lot less of a concern. If you are in the midwest where gas is $2.50/gal, that's $0.05/mi. In CA at $4, it's $0.08/mi. Even better walk or bike for short trips. It's a lot healthier and better for your waistline. If enough people do it, consumption will drop and prices will fall.

Contrast that with a pickup or large SUV getting 15 mpg, and your cost is $0.17/ mi in the midwest and $0.24/mi in CA.

There is a lot under the control of the people.
 
Originally Posted by Dallas69
So back to my question about why prices jump 15 to 25 cents at a time but only drop a penny or 2 at a time.
Can anyone explain?


1) Winter to summer formula change
2) Spring break
3) Intentional shutdown for maintenance because of 1) so they can save money on downtime and reduce supply (to make prices high)

It seems to work for them because people are willing to take a road trip even if it means 25c more per gallon. The same reason why plane tickets are more expensive during spring break and summer travel season, or Sunday, Monday, and Friday.
 
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Originally Posted by Willclark
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Dallas69
So back to my question about why prices jump 15 to 25 cents at a time but only drop a penny or 2 at a time.
Can anyone explain?

Whatever the explanation is, big oil will come out smelling like roses with all of the cheerleaders they have in this site...


Instead of constantly complaining, why not drive less?


Unfortunately, that's not an option until I retire. Fortunately, that will be next year...
 
I agree with the earlier poster who said the bottle neck is the refineries. Whether they're doing things to intentionally drive up prices, who knows, but their slow downs/closures certainly seem to benefit them in terms of driving up prices...
 
Another question, why is it when one or two refineries go down for maintenance or whatever, prices go up nationwide? That should only affect prices in the areas those refineries supply...
 
I'm guessing. I doubt they go up all over the nation for every issue, but they might if the trouble is in a gulf coast refinery as that's where 1/2 of our refinery capacity is located. So that's going to impact a large number of people.

I suspect prices rise more along the lines of how much that refinery contributes to the products that are conveyed via pipelines throughout the US.

Just because the problem occurs in Louisiana doesn't mean that refinery doesn't send product via the network of pipelines to a terminal on the other side of the nation.

When you look at a map of the pipelines, it's hard to find a state that isn't connected to the gulf coast. https://www.api.org/oil-and-natural...ral-gas/pipeline/where-are-the-pipelines

Since half the refineries are in the gulf coast region, and it supplies so much product and has such a high impact, probably half of all incidents create ripples in prices nationwide.

Probably not so much for a refinery in say Washington State or Oregon. Probably more likely local price disturbances for an event up there.

Originally Posted by grampi
Another question, why is it when one or two refineries go down for maintenance or whatever, prices go up nationwide? That should only affect prices in the areas those refineries supply...
 
Funny grampi you have been complaining about price gouging on here since forever.

And I don't expect you ever to relent on your diatribe but from 1978 to 2017 the average price at the pump has been $2.65 +/- $.10

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/gasoline-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/ guess what the price is today..yes it is "spiking to $2.79 but again lets see what the average is for 2019.

We are frickin doomed I tell 'ya!!!
 
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Originally Posted by grampi
Another question, why is it when one or two refineries go down for maintenance or whatever, prices go up nationwide? That should only affect prices in the areas those refineries supply...


A better question is, how much a gallon would you like or expect it to be? Is $1.50 more to you're liking? How about $1.25 a gallon? Is that an acceptable price for you?
 
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Originally Posted by grampi
Another question, why is it when one or two refineries go down for maintenance or whatever, prices go up nationwide? That should only affect prices in the areas those refineries supply...


Inelastic Demand.
 
Gasoline futures are just a breath away from two bucks. The last time is was $2.00 was last October and then prior to that was January 2015, when the world price of oil was collapsing. We had a heck of a run on cheap gas in the last 4 years.
 
Originally Posted by grampi
Another question, why is it when one or two refineries go down for maintenance or whatever, prices go up nationwide? That should only affect prices in the areas those refineries supply...


The areas that that refinery served still need fuel, so now they have to import it from other areas. Demand goes up, price goes up. Throw in the now extended shipping costs which are rolled into the price as well, you get higher prices.
 
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi
Another question, why is it when one or two refineries go down for maintenance or whatever, prices go up nationwide? That should only affect prices in the areas those refineries supply...


The areas that that refinery served still need fuel, so now they have to import it from other areas. Demand goes up, price goes up. Throw in the now extended shipping costs which are rolled into the price as well, you get higher prices.



Don't talk sense. With that guy and his views oil companies should sell gasoline at a loss and go out of business. If gas was free he would complain fuel wasn't delivered to him.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi
Another question, why is it when one or two refineries go down for maintenance or whatever, prices go up nationwide? That should only affect prices in the areas those refineries supply...


The areas that that refinery served still need fuel, so now they have to import it from other areas. Demand goes up, price goes up. Throw in the now extended shipping costs which are rolled into the price as well, you get higher prices.



Don't talk sense. With that guy and his views oil companies should sell gasoline at a loss and go out of business. If gas was free he would complain fuel wasn't delivered to him.


Noted
lol.gif
cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted by Willclark
Originally Posted by grampi
Another question, why is it when one or two refineries go down for maintenance or whatever, prices go up nationwide? That should only affect prices in the areas those refineries supply...


A better question is, how much a gallon would you like or expect it to be? Is $1.50 more to you're liking? How about $1.25 a gallon? Is that an acceptable price for you?


Considering the amount of supply the world has right now $2 to $2.25 is plenty...
 
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi
Another question, why is it when one or two refineries go down for maintenance or whatever, prices go up nationwide? That should only affect prices in the areas those refineries supply...


The areas that that refinery served still need fuel, so now they have to import it from other areas. Demand goes up, price goes up. Throw in the now extended shipping costs which are rolled into the price as well, you get higher prices.



Don't talk sense. With that guy and his views oil companies should sell gasoline at a loss and go out of business. If gas was free he would complain fuel wasn't delivered to him.


Exaggerate much?
lol.gif
 
But the tax man has to add federal, state and local taxes to that. And now you get pretty close to what it costs.

The tax man makes the most on each gallon of fuel sold. But somehow the evil villains are those who invested the capital to drill, transport, refine and sell the products.

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Willclark
Originally Posted by grampi
Another question, why is it when one or two refineries go down for maintenance or whatever, prices go up nationwide? That should only affect prices in the areas those refineries supply...


A better question is, how much a gallon would you like or expect it to be? Is $1.50 more to you're liking? How about $1.25 a gallon? Is that an acceptable price for you?


Considering the amount of supply the world has right now $2 to $2.25 is plenty...
 
Originally Posted by grampi
Considering the amount of supply the world has right now $2 to $2.25 is plenty...


It's nothing personal. The oil companies are not out to get you. It's just business.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251

Don't talk sense. With that guy and his views oil companies should sell gasoline at a loss and go out of business. If gas was free he would complain fuel wasn't delivered to him.

pretty much

Originally Posted by grampi

Exaggerate much?
lol.gif


I don't think so
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by dave1251



Don't talk sense. With that guy and his views oil companies should sell gasoline at a loss and go out of business. If gas was free he would complain fuel wasn't delivered to him.


I do think a lot of gas stations could easily afford to lower their prices on fuel and still make a big profit, especially when they are selling $10 to $15 car washes all day long (that cost them like a dollar each) and selling $2 chocolate bars.
 
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