what you YOU propose for the 'new' GM?
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Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Because Buicks sell well in Asia, and Cadillacs only sell decently in America. They could have a successful global brand, instead of two brands successful only nationally.
It's also all about perception. Take a trip to the UK and you'll find out that Toyotas and Hondas are only for old people. I think they're even less popular in mainland Europe, I can count the number of Toyotas I saw driving in western Germany during a week on one hand. I saw more Jeep Grand Cherokees than I did Toyota cars, which is saying a lot.
To understand why Buick sells well in China and not here you have to take a look at the cars they get there and compare them to the cars here. There are models there that aren't sold here and they rival Caddy. China is also culturally different, which plays a factor as well.
It is apparent in the design of Buick models who the target audience is. Look at the better selling cars such as Camry, Accord, Altima, Fusion, Mazda 6, etc. They look sporty and aggressive (maybe not so much the Camry). Look at a Lacrosse or Lucerne. They look passive, rounded, soft, and unhip. At least Cadillac have cars that look modern and the name has some prestige.
Like you said, it's all about perception. Buicks here are perceived as old people cars and imo they rightly deserve it. Why spend time trying to change the image of a brand when there are others that can fulfill that function?
Because Buicks sell well in Asia, and Cadillacs only sell decently in America. They could have a successful global brand, instead of two brands successful only nationally.
It's also all about perception. Take a trip to the UK and you'll find out that Toyotas and Hondas are only for old people. I think they're even less popular in mainland Europe, I can count the number of Toyotas I saw driving in western Germany during a week on one hand. I saw more Jeep Grand Cherokees than I did Toyota cars, which is saying a lot.
To understand why Buick sells well in China and not here you have to take a look at the cars they get there and compare them to the cars here. There are models there that aren't sold here and they rival Caddy. China is also culturally different, which plays a factor as well.
It is apparent in the design of Buick models who the target audience is. Look at the better selling cars such as Camry, Accord, Altima, Fusion, Mazda 6, etc. They look sporty and aggressive (maybe not so much the Camry). Look at a Lacrosse or Lucerne. They look passive, rounded, soft, and unhip. At least Cadillac have cars that look modern and the name has some prestige.
Like you said, it's all about perception. Buicks here are perceived as old people cars and imo they rightly deserve it. Why spend time trying to change the image of a brand when there are others that can fulfill that function?
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If you enjoy Buicks, please by all means do. Don't let the comments prevent you from enjoying.
Me, I personally don't like big boats that don't handle well, have automatics, that are ride focused, not handling focused. They exist for a reason and sell to a shrinking demographic. The Toyota Avalon is also the same demographic and guess what, it is NA only. My view is you should be driving a car, not be driven in it. Even a cheap car or truck can have sharp steering and tight handling, with moderate power and be fun. But that's me and just me.
I also don't like SUVs for the same reason, but like Buicks, have their niche and reason to exist.
Buicks in China are a brand, not a kind of car. Nothing more, nothing less. They are high end GM in China. There are Opels branded as Buicks, there are Chinese spec US Buicks,there are Holdens badged as Buicks, but they aren't the same as here.
Back to GM in the US. The only two brands that have an identity that is consistent with the product are Chevrolet and Cadillac. The rest are either images of marketing or simply too diverse a product line anymore to have a uniform message.
Keep going with improvements to Chevolets and add more manual transmissions and hybrids to boost fuel economy.
Keep going with Cadillac and keep improving the finesse and fit and finish.
Keep making Saturn - the US Opel or Opel like cars.
The rest - make them niche brands without their own product line or dealer network. Tack 'em on to the above franchises.
Do we need more than two Buicks? No. One big one that is really nice and one medium size and that's it. Sell them at Cadillac dealers. Keep Cadillacs as German competitors that are performance (Handling, not just power) and reliable (something German cars are not).
Ponitacs - what are these now? Sell the Solstice, and the G8. That's it. The rest are vanilla with "performance" branding.
Saab - align them with another import brand, not of GM. That's who buys them. Or sell them with Saturns.
The dealer network could be: Chevrolet-Saturn and Cadillac-GMC with sprinklings of Ponitac and Buick models that shine.
Make cars that don't rust (most others do), last easily 200k without issues (other do), with nice interiors, and are refined and you got a winner.
Toyota is making more and more appliance like cars, that's an opportunity to get a competitive advantage.
That's my business guess here. I have never had an emotional attachment to GM, save for driving a Corvette C6 or Z28 6-speed or the occasional Chevy pickup. The small block **is** a great engine in a lightweight, good handling car!!
Me, I personally don't like big boats that don't handle well, have automatics, that are ride focused, not handling focused. They exist for a reason and sell to a shrinking demographic. The Toyota Avalon is also the same demographic and guess what, it is NA only. My view is you should be driving a car, not be driven in it. Even a cheap car or truck can have sharp steering and tight handling, with moderate power and be fun. But that's me and just me.
I also don't like SUVs for the same reason, but like Buicks, have their niche and reason to exist.
Buicks in China are a brand, not a kind of car. Nothing more, nothing less. They are high end GM in China. There are Opels branded as Buicks, there are Chinese spec US Buicks,there are Holdens badged as Buicks, but they aren't the same as here.
Back to GM in the US. The only two brands that have an identity that is consistent with the product are Chevrolet and Cadillac. The rest are either images of marketing or simply too diverse a product line anymore to have a uniform message.
Keep going with improvements to Chevolets and add more manual transmissions and hybrids to boost fuel economy.
Keep going with Cadillac and keep improving the finesse and fit and finish.
Keep making Saturn - the US Opel or Opel like cars.
The rest - make them niche brands without their own product line or dealer network. Tack 'em on to the above franchises.
Do we need more than two Buicks? No. One big one that is really nice and one medium size and that's it. Sell them at Cadillac dealers. Keep Cadillacs as German competitors that are performance (Handling, not just power) and reliable (something German cars are not).
Ponitacs - what are these now? Sell the Solstice, and the G8. That's it. The rest are vanilla with "performance" branding.
Saab - align them with another import brand, not of GM. That's who buys them. Or sell them with Saturns.
The dealer network could be: Chevrolet-Saturn and Cadillac-GMC with sprinklings of Ponitac and Buick models that shine.
Make cars that don't rust (most others do), last easily 200k without issues (other do), with nice interiors, and are refined and you got a winner.
Toyota is making more and more appliance like cars, that's an opportunity to get a competitive advantage.
That's my business guess here. I have never had an emotional attachment to GM, save for driving a Corvette C6 or Z28 6-speed or the occasional Chevy pickup. The small block **is** a great engine in a lightweight, good handling car!!
Kestas
Staff member
It's amazing how much money is wasted within a company in an effort to maintain a name. GM, Ford, and Chrylser are all guilty of this.
I say do away with names Chevrolet, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontaic, Cadillac, Mercury, and Dodge. Have the cars named GM, Ford, or Chrysler followed by the model name. Then have all models within a company available from a GM, Ford, or Chrysler dealer.
I can only imagine the cost to maintain these names is greater than whatever would be lost.
I say do away with names Chevrolet, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontaic, Cadillac, Mercury, and Dodge. Have the cars named GM, Ford, or Chrysler followed by the model name. Then have all models within a company available from a GM, Ford, or Chrysler dealer.
I can only imagine the cost to maintain these names is greater than whatever would be lost.
Right, and Volkswagen should drop Lambo, Audi, Bugatti, and Bentley.
Nissan should drop Infiniti, and Toyota drop Lexus. Hyundai could drop Kia.
We could all go to the dealer and say "Gimme a GM model 3." This would simplify things greatly.
Nissan should drop Infiniti, and Toyota drop Lexus. Hyundai could drop Kia.
We could all go to the dealer and say "Gimme a GM model 3." This would simplify things greatly.
Bring back the Buick Grand National. Get rid of the rest.
Doesn't matter to me if G.M survives .The void woulf be filled .I would feel bad for the employees that lose their jobs {I have lost a job before it happens life has no guarantees] but the CEOs would get their millions and a new corp to bankrupt. The free market would be the best in determinimg the fate of G.M.
Originally Posted By: harry j
Bring back the Buick Grand National. Get rid of the rest.
It id funny that G.M. seems to kill the nicest cars and pushes their FWD garbage.
Bring back the Buick Grand National. Get rid of the rest.
It id funny that G.M. seems to kill the nicest cars and pushes their FWD garbage.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: harry j
Bring back the Buick Grand National. Get rid of the rest.
It id funny that G.M. seems to kill the nicest cars and pushes their FWD garbage.
I like the Grand National too, but really, what was it? It was a Regal with a hopped up motor. The same Regal that was identical to the other ten vehicles it shared the G-Body platform with.
Everybody wants to drop marques, but nobody wants to drop cross-marque re-badging.
Why not keep Chevy, Buick, and Cadillac but not share the platforms? If you buy a Buick it shouldn't be a re-badged Chevy. Nor should a Cadillac be a re-badged Buick. My 2 cents.
Originally Posted By: harry j
Bring back the Buick Grand National. Get rid of the rest.
It id funny that G.M. seems to kill the nicest cars and pushes their FWD garbage.
I like the Grand National too, but really, what was it? It was a Regal with a hopped up motor. The same Regal that was identical to the other ten vehicles it shared the G-Body platform with.
Everybody wants to drop marques, but nobody wants to drop cross-marque re-badging.
Why not keep Chevy, Buick, and Cadillac but not share the platforms? If you buy a Buick it shouldn't be a re-badged Chevy. Nor should a Cadillac be a re-badged Buick. My 2 cents.
Kestas
Staff member
The problem begins when, for example, the Chevrolet dealers see a model developed for Buick that is popular and fills a void in their lineup. Then the Chevy dealers want their version. This is what starts the nonsense.
To reword my statement above, they don't necessarily have to kill names, just the concept of different divisions and dealerships who peddle the same platforms. This produces a lot of unnecessary intrinsic waste, an expense that has no benefit to the consumer.
GM can build a Cadillac, Pontiac, and Silverado, but it should be a single model sold at a GM dealership.
To reword my statement above, they don't necessarily have to kill names, just the concept of different divisions and dealerships who peddle the same platforms. This produces a lot of unnecessary intrinsic waste, an expense that has no benefit to the consumer.
GM can build a Cadillac, Pontiac, and Silverado, but it should be a single model sold at a GM dealership.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: harry j
Bring back the Buick Grand National. Get rid of the rest.
It id funny that G.M. seems to kill the nicest cars and pushes their FWD garbage.
Actually, their FWD cars are very good. I've never had a problem with a GM auto transmission, axle CV joints, etc. These items are not uncommon to fail on an import.
Originally Posted By: harry j
Bring back the Buick Grand National. Get rid of the rest.
It id funny that G.M. seems to kill the nicest cars and pushes their FWD garbage.
Actually, their FWD cars are very good. I've never had a problem with a GM auto transmission, axle CV joints, etc. These items are not uncommon to fail on an import.
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