What would you do...

The Critic · Feb 7, 2006

Note: This didn't have to me...it is a "what if" situation.

Let's say someone asked you to do an oil/filter change for them, but you also found at the same time, that they had 50K on their factory ATF.

For discussion purposes, lets say this person drove an Explorer with a 5R55 (?) transmission that specs Mercon V, and a pan drop/filter change removes about 5-6 qts out of the 13. The person doesn't tow, vehicle is used for normal driving.

If given a choice, what would you do?

1) Drop the pan, change the filter, clean the magnets, and refill with $2.50/qt Supertech Multi-Vehicle ATF. (Covers DexIIIH, Mercon V, ATF+3/+4) Idle car for 10 mins, then do another drain/refill with Supertech Multi-Vehicle ATF. Total fluid replaced after two drain/refills is roughly 2/3, or 65-70%.

2) Drop the pan, change the filter, clean the magnets, and refill with Mobil 1 ATF. (Newest formulation is Mercon V certified) Total fluid replaced is about 40%.

After you service this person's transmission, lets assume that the transmission will never experience another ATF change for the rest of its service life. Let's assume that the transmission will last another 100-120K, so the transmission fluid won't be changed again for another 100-120K miles.

Which one would you choose?

Thanks, Michael

wavinwayne · Feb 7, 2006

I wouldn't do either personally. I'd have the fluid exchanged with a T-Tech machine at my local Xpress Lube.

But if I HAD to choose, I'd go with option #2.

Pablo · Feb 7, 2006

First of all there is no need to panic with 50K on the ATF. Maybe you guys have been living here too long but most folks, per the book even, go past 50K on their ATF.

Amsoil ATF, either drain and fill 4-5 times over the next month, or home style self flush. Easily good for 100K.

TheLoneRanger · Feb 7, 2006

All of the above options are good. I have an Explorer with the 5R55E, and after an initial filter change, I suction out and refill the pan every summer. I figure this gives enough ATF exchange for trans longevity under normal conditions.

Short of yearly maintenance, I'd try to exchange as much ATF as is convenient, with a good Mercon V rated brand.

The Critic · Feb 7, 2006

Let's say that the person wants to spend as little $$$ as possible (as most people are when it comes to vehicle maintenance), and refuses to spend more than $40-$50 on the whole job. You'll only see the car once.

So, what I find interesting is, you folks think that replacing only 40% of the total fluid volume with a synthetic ATF is better than replacing 2/3 of the fluid with a synthetic blend ATF? Please explain...

Gary Allan · Feb 8, 2006

I say #3. Pump dry via cooling line, drop pan (much more tidy due to being all but empty), clean ..etc..etc ..refill pump and refill until the calculated amount is been purged ...and viola~

99 44/100th % new fluid with a clean sump.

MolaKule · Feb 8, 2006

You seem to be biasing the outcome.

You do not know if the transmission will last 100k, and the general condition of the car and when you will trade it in matters here.

If I were to keep the car I would use two flushes of Mobil 1 5k apart. If I were to soon trade the car I would use the ST flushes.

quote:

Let's assume that the transmission will last another 100-120K, so the transmission fluid won't be changed again for another 100-120K miles.

If I knew the transmission would last at least another 100k miles, I would change fluid at
I still believe that synthetic ATF and Blends are superior to majority Group I and II ATF's.

The Critic · Feb 8, 2006

Thanks Mola for the reply.

So, lets say that I used Castrol or Valvoline Mercon V instead of the Supertech Multi-Vehicle, would you consider those as blends?

How would you feel about using those for flushes instead?

How often do you suggest changing the filter? Can they be cleaned?

Lastly, I noticed how you mentioned using M1 drain/refills 5K apart. Why 5K apart? Why not drive or idle the car for 10 mins, then immediately drain/refill again? Please explain.

Thanks again, as always.

MolaKule · Feb 8, 2006

I would not consider Castrol or Valvoline as the better blends. I would think, biased of course, that Schaeffer's 204S and our AutoGlide would be better blends.

I would suggest changing filters every 60,000 miles if they are the white synthetic media type, or if they are screens, just wash them off. It depends on the filter. And cleaning the pan and magnet is a given.

For the last question, I would want to allow the synthetic fluid some time to do a better job of cleaning. Now if cleaning was the primary purpose, one could use AUTO-RX and skip one of the 5k intervals.

The Critic · Feb 8, 2006

Thanks.

Wasn't Schaeffer's 204S the fluid that gave you problems with "shift points" (?) on an Explorer? I thought you posted about that a while ago...

unDummy · Feb 8, 2006

If the transmission will never again experience an ATF change, why bother starting maintenance now?

Change their oil and don't do any more maintenance for that person. You don't want to be the one responsible when something breaks.

At 50k, the transmission needs a complete flush service including pan dropping.
Pull the pan, clean the magnets, change the filter, refill it and then have it machine or cooler line flushed, or do nothing!

The Critic · Feb 9, 2006

Mola,

My daughter's '98 Ford Explorer (which requires Mercon V) does not have the correct shift points nor shift feel when using Schaeffer's 204S or Amsoil Universal ATF. I have used both in the Explorer and have had to drain both within 2,000 miles. "

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000583#000018

MolaKule · Feb 9, 2006

quote:

Wasn't Schaeffer's 204S the fluid that gave you problems with "shift points" (?) on an Explorer? I thought you posted about that a while ago...

No, I never said that. I use our AutoGlide in MerconV for our daughter's 98 Explorer.

I did use their earlier formulation (pre-SF days)in one of my Suburbans but that was over three years ago and had good luck with it.

Colt · Feb 9, 2006

quote:

My daughter's '98 Ford Explorer (which requires Mercon V) does not have the correct shift points nor shift feel when using Schaeffer's 204S or Amsoil Universal ATF. I have used both in the Explorer and have had to drain both within 2,000 miles. "

I have 400+ miles on Amsoil ATF in my '05 Explorer and it shifts just like it did before the changeover,very smooth and quick.
Odd you would use another synthetic after one synthetic gave you a problem.

MolaKule · Feb 9, 2006

OK, Michael, I think I see what you're trying to do. I thought you were referring to the latest (reformulated) version of 204S whereas I tested or ran the earlier (older) version of Schaeffer's 204S in my daughter's Explorer.

The older Schaeffer's 204S blend was primarily speced for DexronIII/Mercon, not MerconV and did not provide the proper shift feel for a transmission speced for MerconV, as would be expected. Neither did the Amsoil Universal ATF for that matter.

Now the older formulation of 204S and the Amsoil UATF performed well in our '92 Suburban.

I have NEVER tested or used the new (reformulated) Schaeffer's 204S universal ATF in a transmission speced for MerconV.

Maybe someone out there has used the new formulation of Schaeffer's 204S in a transmission speced for MerconV, and could report back on their findings with a comment on shift quality.

m2200b · Feb 10, 2006

I have done 2 above but use Chevron dino DEX3 or WMST cheap DEX3 and tell them to do it again next year and that it's only 40% change.

Their trannie and maintenance isn't my problem. These are always like opening a can of worms. If they think 100K is ok on the trannie usually the coolant has the same problem eg 7-9 year old , fuel filter, pcv , spark plugs, belts, hoses, wires are all original. All you can do is look it over and say - these are the wear and tear items I'd fix on some schedule if this were my car.

What would you do...

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