The MD80 is a dying breed. American (largest operator) is phasing them out with 737-800s. The 717 is the latest and greatest from Boeing right after the bought McDonnell Douglas. The 717 is a DC-9-30 airframe with a glass cockpit and high bypass (read: Efficient) Rolls Royce/BMW turbofans. It is a very economical airplane. The MD90 is not a very common airplane. It features the MD80 airframe with updated avionics and the same engine as the 717. More economical than the MD80, but less up to date avionics wise.
What will replace the MD88/90/ B717 Models?
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Originally Posted By: Steve S
Most people buy made in China stuff without any concern.
But how many people put their lives in the hand of Chinese products?
Now mind you I have nothing against products from China.
Ken in WA
Most people buy made in China stuff without any concern.
But how many people put their lives in the hand of Chinese products?
Now mind you I have nothing against products from China.
Ken in WA
If China can build a jet that meets FAA standards, I'll fly it. They likely won't be able to make it competitive with the likely MD-80/DC-9 replacements (737, A-320, E-190/195, Bombardier C-series) without some serious cost cutting, so it can only come from antiquated engines and avionics.
Originally Posted By: Ken42
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Most people buy made in China stuff without any concern.
But how many people put their lives in the hand of Chinese products?
Now mind you I have nothing against products from China.
Ken in WA
Drugs and foods?
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Most people buy made in China stuff without any concern.
But how many people put their lives in the hand of Chinese products?
Now mind you I have nothing against products from China.
Ken in WA
Drugs and foods?
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
If China can build a jet that meets FAA standards, I'll fly it. They likely won't be able to make it competitive with the likely MD-80/DC-9 replacements (737, A-320, E-190/195, Bombardier C-series) without some serious cost cutting, so it can only come from antiquated engines and avionics.
The new Chineese jet will have a glass cockpit and modern avionics. The fuselage is a DC-9 copy with a Russian wing design. Engines will be modern fuel efficient engines from various American and European makers. The Chineese aeronautical authority is essentially a copy of the FAA.
If China can build a jet that meets FAA standards, I'll fly it. They likely won't be able to make it competitive with the likely MD-80/DC-9 replacements (737, A-320, E-190/195, Bombardier C-series) without some serious cost cutting, so it can only come from antiquated engines and avionics.
The new Chineese jet will have a glass cockpit and modern avionics. The fuselage is a DC-9 copy with a Russian wing design. Engines will be modern fuel efficient engines from various American and European makers. The Chineese aeronautical authority is essentially a copy of the FAA.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
yeah, I have a feeling we will see more of the Embraer (sp?) jets around... CRJs seem too small, I do get a lot of 737s on smaller, shorter trips, but its dependent upon the airline.
JMH
Embraers are scary planes. They ride well, but literally the first four times I was rode or was supposed to ride one (recently) something went wrong. The first one mechanicaled out and we waited four hours for a replacement. The replacement took off fine, but failed on approach - gear didn't lock down at least according to the lights. Circle and dump fuel followed by a very smooth emergency landing. The next one I boarded was in SLC - it was a small one - as I climbed the steps I saw the FO standing below and forward of the steps looking at a hatch on the fuselage below the cockpit windows, shouting into his cell phone "I'M TELLING YOU - I CAN SEE THE CRACK!!!" That plane didn't go anywhere either. The replacement for that one was delayed as well, but I forget why.
yeah, I have a feeling we will see more of the Embraer (sp?) jets around... CRJs seem too small, I do get a lot of 737s on smaller, shorter trips, but its dependent upon the airline.
JMH
Embraers are scary planes. They ride well, but literally the first four times I was rode or was supposed to ride one (recently) something went wrong. The first one mechanicaled out and we waited four hours for a replacement. The replacement took off fine, but failed on approach - gear didn't lock down at least according to the lights. Circle and dump fuel followed by a very smooth emergency landing. The next one I boarded was in SLC - it was a small one - as I climbed the steps I saw the FO standing below and forward of the steps looking at a hatch on the fuselage below the cockpit windows, shouting into his cell phone "I'M TELLING YOU - I CAN SEE THE CRACK!!!" That plane didn't go anywhere either. The replacement for that one was delayed as well, but I forget why.
I did a little searching. Its an ACAC ARJ21. General Electric will provide the engines (CF34-10A) and Rockwell-Collins the avionics (Pro Line 21). Those are modern systems, but not groundbreaking in any way. The CF34-10 series engines are used on the Embraer E-series, and Pro Line 21 avionics are used on many small business jets (in different configurations). So competition wise, it won't beat any of the current offerings. Price wise it might. The biggest hurdle it faces is aftermarket support to operators.
A couple pictures:
A couple pictures:
I'll second Molakule's comments and verify Frozen......'s research.
I just read an article on the above Chinese aircraft. I can't cite the specific source, but it was in Aviation Week, AOPA, Popular Mechanics or the Wall Street Journal. The gist of the article centered on the fact that at least 50% of the parts in the above pictured airliner are U.S. made!
I agree the performance stats are likely no better than the current CRJs and Embraers. They'll have to win on price.
But I'd fly one in a heartbeat over anything the Russians are currently putting in the air (civilian-wise).
And regardless of who makes it or how "advanced" it is, it's all irrelevant if the crew hoses the pre-takeoff checklist and forgets to set the flaps for takeoff. A stall is a stall is a stall. Just ask the poor folks at SAS.
I just read an article on the above Chinese aircraft. I can't cite the specific source, but it was in Aviation Week, AOPA, Popular Mechanics or the Wall Street Journal. The gist of the article centered on the fact that at least 50% of the parts in the above pictured airliner are U.S. made!
I agree the performance stats are likely no better than the current CRJs and Embraers. They'll have to win on price.
But I'd fly one in a heartbeat over anything the Russians are currently putting in the air (civilian-wise).
And regardless of who makes it or how "advanced" it is, it's all irrelevant if the crew hoses the pre-takeoff checklist and forgets to set the flaps for takeoff. A stall is a stall is a stall. Just ask the poor folks at SAS.
From the Boeing archives, dated 21 September 2000,
"Boeing marked the delivery of two MD-90 Trunkliners to China Northern Airlines at a ceremony at Shanghai Aviation Industrial Corp. on Tuesday. The airplanes then flew to China Northern's home base in Shenyang. The airline intends to put them into service immediately, increasing China Northern's MD-90 fleet to 13. This event brought to a close the McDonnell Douglas/Boeing Trunkliner program. The agreement, signed in 1992 and amended in 1994, was to have produced 20 airplanes in China but was reduced to just two following Boeing's decision to phase out the MD-90. The MD-90 was selected in 1992 as the China Trunkliner -- to serve China's domestic trunk and regional airline routes."
China has already built DC-9 derivatives, with McDonnell Douglas blessing.
"Boeing marked the delivery of two MD-90 Trunkliners to China Northern Airlines at a ceremony at Shanghai Aviation Industrial Corp. on Tuesday. The airplanes then flew to China Northern's home base in Shenyang. The airline intends to put them into service immediately, increasing China Northern's MD-90 fleet to 13. This event brought to a close the McDonnell Douglas/Boeing Trunkliner program. The agreement, signed in 1992 and amended in 1994, was to have produced 20 airplanes in China but was reduced to just two following Boeing's decision to phase out the MD-90. The MD-90 was selected in 1992 as the China Trunkliner -- to serve China's domestic trunk and regional airline routes."
China has already built DC-9 derivatives, with McDonnell Douglas blessing.
dkryan:
Yes Spanair MD-82. Yes it looks like the flaps were not extended but they still don't know the reason why.
SAS has put most of it's MD-8X fleet on the ground due to increased fuel prices and it is only operated domestic in Sweden and Denmark. Here they only use 737-400, 500, 600, 700 and 800.
Yes Spanair MD-82. Yes it looks like the flaps were not extended but they still don't know the reason why.
SAS has put most of it's MD-8X fleet on the ground due to increased fuel prices and it is only operated domestic in Sweden and Denmark. Here they only use 737-400, 500, 600, 700 and 800.
You might be surprised to know that the Chinese are already producing airframe parts for Boeing and have been for some time. Airbus has opened an assembly plant in China as well. China is a huge growth market for comercial aircraft. Along with sales in China usually goes a piece of the manufacturing pie.
http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/070809/1/4aggz.html
http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/070809/1/4aggz.html
Originally Posted By: FrozenPilot
I did a little searching. Its an ACAC ARJ21. General Electric will provide the engines (CF34-10A) and Rockwell-Collins the avionics (Pro Line 21). Those are modern systems, but not groundbreaking in any way. The CF34-10 series engines are used on the Embraer E-series, and Pro Line 21 avionics are used on many small business jets (in different configurations). So competition wise, it won't beat any of the current offerings. Price wise it might. The biggest hurdle it faces is aftermarket support to operators.
A couple pictures:
What the [censored]? I say re-engine and install better avionics. 717 glass would be nice. Although 738's would be a very good replacement.
I did a little searching. Its an ACAC ARJ21. General Electric will provide the engines (CF34-10A) and Rockwell-Collins the avionics (Pro Line 21). Those are modern systems, but not groundbreaking in any way. The CF34-10 series engines are used on the Embraer E-series, and Pro Line 21 avionics are used on many small business jets (in different configurations). So competition wise, it won't beat any of the current offerings. Price wise it might. The biggest hurdle it faces is aftermarket support to operators.
A couple pictures:
What the [censored]? I say re-engine and install better avionics. 717 glass would be nice. Although 738's would be a very good replacement.
Originally Posted By: JetStar
You might be surprised to know that the Chinese are already producing airframe parts for Boeing and have been for some time. Airbus has opened an assembly plant in China as well. China is a huge growth market for comercial aircraft. Along with sales in China usually goes a piece of the manufacturing pie.
http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/070809/1/4aggz.html
True, and Boeing also has a big rework and repair operation to fix the offshore stuff so it can be used. Even the stuff out of Japan wasn't that good. The cost of rework is just built into the price of the airplane though.
You might be surprised to know that the Chinese are already producing airframe parts for Boeing and have been for some time. Airbus has opened an assembly plant in China as well. China is a huge growth market for comercial aircraft. Along with sales in China usually goes a piece of the manufacturing pie.
http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/070809/1/4aggz.html
True, and Boeing also has a big rework and repair operation to fix the offshore stuff so it can be used. Even the stuff out of Japan wasn't that good. The cost of rework is just built into the price of the airplane though.
Originally Posted By: JetStar
You might be surprised to know that the Chinese are already producing airframe parts for Boeing and have been for some time.
I heard they are experimenting with using surplus melamine from their food industry to make composite parts.
You might be surprised to know that the Chinese are already producing airframe parts for Boeing and have been for some time.
I heard they are experimenting with using surplus melamine from their food industry to make composite parts.
This is the second aircraft to use the 717 designation at Boeing. I think the first 717 was only called the 717 internally.
Correct. aka C-135 Stratolifter to the rest of the world. lol
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