What oil after turbo failure?

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1. Subaru Forester 2.5 XT (EJ255=STI block, different ECU, different intake manifold, and a WRX turbo)
2. API SL/GF-3 5W-30 recommended for fuel economy; 10W-30 & 10W-40 allowed over -4F; some straight
grades and 50 grades also allowed in severe conditions. Subaru now recommends 3,750 mile OCI's with turbo's due to oil supply line screen blockage/sludging and owner's not checking oil often enough.
3. Central New Jersey
4. I drive hard, but not necessarily fast. Short gearing on the car makes it quick to redline.
5. Daily drive is seven miles each way. At least once a week I hit WOT/redline after about 30 minutes of driving (in addition to my regular commute). I drive on the beach in the summer, do some light off-roading, drive spiritedly in the twisties and hills, do some highway miles to the beach, and drive to SC 2-3 times per year. No track or auto-x.
6. At ~62k miles, my turbo was replaced due to excessive oil getting past the seals. This was going on for about a year. Turbo oil supply line screen was clean according to the head tech at the dealership. The turbo itself was fine. The new turbo lasted 20k and then blew. The shaft had excessive play, but there were not other signs of damage and again the oil supply line filter was clean.

History:
After a run on M1 5W-30, I stuck with GC for several years. I wanted to try Amsoil out of curiosity, and had decent uoa's with that.
Here's my last uoa on SSO. Anyone think the slight uptick in lead was a sign of things to come?

After two runs on SSO, one on DEO, one on dealer conventional, I'm currently running RL 5W-30.
I'm thinking of switching to Motul to support some Subaru forum sponsors and since they support Subaru motorsports. Most of them carry Eco-nergy 8100 5W-30 (thin, but I had a decent uoa with it), X-cess 5W-40 and 300V. I have found a couple that carry X-Lite 0W-30.

I've also thought of just sticking with Red Line or even going back to GC. The biggest difference that I've noticed with RL (and why I want to stick with ester based) is that start-up is quicker than with any other oil that I've tried. I probably will not try a GF-4 oil.

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-Dennis
 
More turbo failure details:

On my last interval with SSO, I burned two quarts in 8k miles. Not a lot according to Subaru, but more than I was used to with GC. The turbo was probably on it's way out. I've always used OEM Tokyo Roki's and switched to Amsoil Ea oil filter on my second run of SSO. After the SSO, I went with DEO and didn't change the oil filter because it was very clean.

After about 3k on DEO I added a quart. When I was preparing to leave for SC, there was a knocking sound and I thought it could be from the not changing the oil filter and planned to just change it in SC. When I got to Maryland, I had a check engine light and pulled in to AAP. The code was P0011 - Camshaft position sensor - over advanced timing.

I called the dealer and got the tech on the phone and he said it was possibly a clogged filter. I believe he was referring to the turbo oil supply screen/filter, but I thought he was thinking it was the oil filter so I just wanted to remove the oil filter. From my description, he said it was likely only a turbo failure and not any engine problems.

The turbo ended up failing on the drive (whirring sound/no boost), and I ended up doing 55 mph while blowing lots of smoke. Go to my destination and changed the oil filter. Unfortunately, I didn't take a sample for a uoa. Bought some extra oil and drove 55 mph back to NJ, smoking and adding lots of oil along the way.

Ironically, I have kept my engine stock for "reliability" and stayed stock with this OEM turbo #3. In hindsight, I wish I would've gone with an aftermarket turbo but I wanted the car in and out of the shop quickly. My OCI's were also always 7.5-8k miles.
 
Something I wonder,are thicker oils more immune to sludging/varnishing/coking in a turbo engine? Reason I ask is that I know several twin turbo Z32 owners who use 20W50 Pennzoil yb,and they all have between 200,000 and 300,000 miles on their cars with original oem turbos still pulling strong plus their engines still have factory spec compression,and no sludge (they change religiously at 3k miles). I`d looked at a twin turbo Supra that has only 70,000 miles and has documented oil changes every 3000 miles on Toyota 5W30 dino dealer bulk oil,and the upper valvetrain is really varnished up.
 
Some here have had good UOAs on Subie turbos using RTS 5W-40, which I believe is now T6.
You might want to search the UOA forum for Subaru turbos to see which oils seem to hold up in this application.
 
Yeah, 40 grades (instead of just robust 30's) seem to make more and more sense to me. The main downside is that they would take longer to warm up and I have a short commute. Although, my car is probably not fully warmed up in 7 miles (15 min.) with a 30 grade anyway.

-Dennis
 
Any other suggestions? I knew I should have taken pics, or put Pennzoil Ultra in the title, or said that an oil caused the failure.
grin2.gif


-Dennis
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Was silver ever higher than zero on any of your UOAs?

No. Other than the slight uptick of lead from 4 to 10 with the last uoa, all of my wear metals were very good.

That's one of the odd things. There didn't seem to be any signs of turbo failure, according to the uoa's.

-Dennis
 
I owned turbo 2.2 Chryslers for years. I had an original Shelby Charger GLHS, number 716 of the 1000 made. I ran Mobil 1 10w-30 and Amsoil 10w-30 at 5K intervals. The biggest mistake people make with turbo motors is not letting them idle for 2-3 minutes before shutdown. Water cooled turbo or not, I always did the same thing. Also, I treated the motors about every fourth oil change with Motorkote engine treatment. I made over 300 wheel hp with these 135 ci motors and the only failure I ever had was when I was using nitrous and the fuel cutoff occurred because I forgot to install a diode on the MAP sensor to defeat the fuel cutoff when the boost goes over 17lbs. I ran 20 lbs of boost regularly on those little motors and never blew a head gasket. These cars would run high 12's on the motor with less than $1000 worth of mods.

Sorry to kind of get off track.

If one keeps trashing turbos and the oil supply line and screen are clear and they are regularly changing a quality synthetic oil, I think the bearings are being coked by too quick shutdowns. Also, I am a believer in Motorkote engine treatment and SFR's Protecta oil treatment. I have built engines and put them on the dyno and seen as much as a 15 hp gain after installing the synthetics and additives.

Not trying to be an endorser of anything, I have tried about every synthetic oil and many of them are very good. I have used Amsoil since 1978 and I am a lifetime dealer, but i am currently running Pennzoil Ultra in both of my family cars. I hear people trash additives all the time and I have had zero success with some, but definite results from the ones I mentioned.

Just my $.02 Your mileage may vary. :)
 
THIS IS MY EDIT OF THE ABOVE ORIGINAL POST, I ADDED A FEW THINGS BUT MY EDIT TIME EXPIRED ON THE PREVIOUS POST. br



I owned turbo 2.2 Chryslers for years. I had an original Shelby Charger GLHS, number 716 of the 1000 made. I ran Mobil 1 10w-30 and Amsoil 10w-30 at 5K intervals. The biggest mistake people make with turbo motors is not letting them idle for 2-3 minutes before shutdown. Water cooled turbo or not, I always did the same thing. Also, I treated the motors about every fourth oil change with Motorkote engine treatment. I made over 300 wheel hp with these 135 ci motors and the only failure I ever had was when I was using nitrous and the fuel cutoff occurred because I forgot to install a diode on the MAP sensor to defeat the fuel cutoff when the boost goes over 17lbs. I ran 20 lbs of boost regularly on those little motors and never blew a head gasket. These cars would run high 12's on the motor with less than $1000 worth of mods.

Sorry to kind of get off track.

If one keeps trashing turbos and the oil supply line and screen are clear and they are regularly changing a quality synthetic oil, I think the bearings are being coked by too quick shutdowns, or possibly a restriction of the oil filter. Canton Mecca racing products makes beautiful racing oil filter canisters in different lengths and diameters that has a replaceable 8 micron filter, that flows something like 30 GPM with no bypass. These filters are the cat's [censored] and I have used them for over 15 years. Also, I am a believer in Motorkote engine treatment and SFR's Protecta oil treatment. I have built engines and put them on the dyno and seen as much as a 15 hp gain after installing the synthetics and additives. I also use Filtermag RA series filter magnets to grab any metallic debris the oil filter isn't capturing. Before I started using the Canton Mecca filters I cut many oil filters in half and could see the debris trapped on the side of the filter by the magnet.

Not trying to be an endorser of anything, I have tried about every synthetic oil and many of them are very good. I have used Amsoil since 1978 and I am a lifetime dealer, but i am currently running Pennzoil Ultra in both of my family cars. I hear people trash additives all the time and I have had zero success with some, but definite results from the ones I mentioned along with the Canton Mecca filters and the Filtermags.

Just my $.02 Your mileage may vary. :)
 
Thanks for the info. My turbo was definitely not a victim of being shut down too quick. Yes, it is water cooled (and the coolant continues to circulate after shut-off) but I always did a cool down. Even if I'm cruising the interstate at a steady 75 mph and then pull into a rest area, I let it run for a minute before shutting down.

Thanks all for the recommendations.

-Dennis
 
If you think the turbo failure was related to oil why not go thicker? RL 5w30 has a HTHS viscosity of 3.8, which is great for a 30 weight, but you can get HTHS 4.6 with the 5w40 or 4.7 with the 10w40.

I ran both RL 5w40 and 5w30 in my car and noticed no difference in turbo spool up (VW 2.0FSI). I did however notice a positive improvement in spool up when switching from factory fill 30 weight to the RL 5w40. So if you can get more HTHS and no loss in spool up, it seems like a safer way to go to me. 2 cents
 
The only thing it would be concerned about running 5 or 10W-40, especially in the winter, is the engine warming up even less on my 7 mile daily commute. Or would that even matter with RL since it's so robust?

-Dennis
 
Last edited:
"when 5W30 is cold, ...the oil is 35 weight (5+30),...20 w 50 starts at 70 and warms up to 50"
- Kyle, auto mechanic & VP Speedline Motorsports, INTL"


DID SOMEBODY ACTUALLY SAY THIS OUT LOUD???

Good God...
 
Originally Posted By: brsmith
"when 5W30 is cold, ...the oil is 35 weight (5+30),...20 w 50 starts at 70 and warms up to 50"
- Kyle, auto mechanic & VP Speedline Motorsports, INTL"

DID SOMEBODY ACTUALLY SAY THIS OUT LOUD???

Good God...


Not out loud, he said it in writing! Ignorance is understandable but this guy was talking out of his behind saying how he was an expert on oil. Thus his arrogance will live on in infamy via the quote ha ha!
 
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