What is too short an ice?

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Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Yeah spellcheck can't correct for everything.
ya, your pretty much useless as far as I'm concerned. Since I got here all I've seen you do is go around running your mouth and not contributing a thing. Do you have anything to add?


Considering you are the one who pointed out the mistake, I didn't think it was out of line to make a response to your comment. But I guess it was.

Hey, what about that no-endcap thread that I've asked you about twice now? The one where you said someone couldn't be so ignorant to suggest it, then later you said you had no problems with a no-endcap filter? You said you would clear up any "misunderstanding" I had about your statement.
 
^why don't you point me to that thread or better just post the part. I don't remember saying that but I've been learning a lot lately. So show me what your talking about, kiddo.
 
I'm no chemist, but from reading on here I was under the impression that the problem of higher wear while the new oil establishes its own fm/aw adds was only a problem with ester or otherwise polar base stock - that's why redline users see high metals for the first couples of changes.

Is it still a problem with grp. II, III or IV?
 
^^there appears to be a sorta break in period. (if you will) for the additives to break down a bit and begin functioning well. Yes
 
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
^why don't you point me to that thread or better just post the part. I don't remember saying that but I've been learning a lot lately. So show me what your talking about, kiddo.


For the third time:

Post

And what about that thread you mentioned showing the disintegrating Fram filters that 901 asked you about?
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
^why don't you point me to that thread or better just post the part. I don't remember saying that but I've been learning a lot lately. So show me what your talking about, kiddo.


For the third time:
Post

And what about that thread you mentioned showing the disintegrating Fram filters that 901 asked you about?
Finally u posted what you been hounding me about.
Yes it is ignorant to suggest puro loose the metal endcaps. Either he was suggesting to replace em with a fram like cardboard or just a sealed capless media, it would be a down grade. However, the no end cap design I have come to understand is effective unlike the sugar cookie looking media fram with paper on the ends. Nice try kiddo lol!
 
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Finally u posted what you been hounding me about.
Yes it is ignorant to suggest puro loose the metal endcaps. Either he was suggesting to replace em with a fram like cardboard or just a sealed capless media, it would be a down grade. However, the no end cap design I have come to understand is effective unlike the sugar cookie looking media fram with paper on the ends. Nice try kiddo lol!


"Nice try kiddo"? Are you living in reality? is this some sort of game to you?

The context for my question was about the filter not needing the metal crimp strap between the pleats, and that a glued seam may be more appropriate. I stated that no metal end cap was necessary. You immediately derided my statement to the point of ridicule yet later on stated that no-endcap filters were OK by you.

Just to beat this horse a little more, why is a no-endcap filter a downgrade? What does a metal endcap get you that a glued end end does not?
 
Stronger support for the media pleats. The adhesive seals the media ends while at the same time adhears to the metal endcaps.
Glad I can be helpful to you. Ask me questions anytime,Kiddo
 
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Stronger support for the media pleats. The adhesive seals the media ends while at the same time adhears to the metal endcaps.
Glad I can be helpful to you. Ask me questions anytime,Kiddo


Okay if you say so. What do you mean about "stronger support for the media pleats"? Why do they need stronger support in the axial direction? And if you say it is stronger support in the radial direction, then I will have to disagree since the center is unsupported in either design.

And yes, the adhesive seals the media ends as well as adhering to the metal endcap, but that isn't necessary if there isn't a metal endcap in the first place.
 
No no you see, the adhesive marries the media with the metal endcaps. The metal endcaps lend strength to the adeheasive and media and provides more support to the pleats. Helps them stay put. OK you understand?
 
The low-temp AW additives work immediately.

The high AW temp additives form films as soon as the "localized" temp gets above about 120F.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
No no you see, the adhesive marries the media with the metal endcaps. The metal endcaps lend strength to the adeheasive and media and provides more support to the pleats. Helps them stay put. OK you understand?


Well, I'd suggest that if you really want to "marry" the media with the endcap you would be better off with a fiber cap. But so far I really don't see what the reason is for the cap at all when the end pleats are glued. The strength of the assembly is limited to the strength of the adhesive, right?

"Helps them stay put"? Where are they wanting to go?
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
The low-temp AW additives work immediately.

The high AW temp additives form films as soon as the "localized" temp gets above about 120F.

I see, so would you say that the idea of short ocis attributing to greater wear is false?
 
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Stronger support for the media pleats.

I can think of another brand whose pleats need a lot more support than their getting, or at least someone sober programming the machinery.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
No no you see, the adhesive marries the media with the metal endcaps. The metal endcaps lend strength to the adeheasive and media and provides more support to the pleats. Helps them stay put. OK you understand?


Well, I'd suggest that if you really want to "marry" the media with the endcap you would be better off with a fiber cap. But so far I really don't see what the reason is for the cap at all when the end pleats are glued. The strength of the assembly is limited to the strength of the adhesive, right?

"Helps them stay put"? Where are they wanting to go?

There's also a spring or leaf spring applying pressure which helps keep the the media ends encapsulated in the metal endcaps. The fiber endcaps do get brittle and weak. As you can notice, pleats often move around or become wavy during use. The adhesive adheraring to and between both media and endcaps obviously helps the pleats stay put on the ends.
From claims that the flexibility of the cardboard endcaps allow for play which they say helps the media not tearaway from the endcaps which is true. But the cardboard endcaps become brittle and weaken and are subject to breaking off.
Does it happen often? I don't believe so. But it does happen sometimes.
The engineers use metal encapsulated in most filters for a reason. I would suppose(and I'm subject to being blasted for saying it) that plastic endcaps could work OK in a spin on filter. I would rather them be plastic than paper.
 
I haven't been impressed with paper end caps not adhearing to the media through the oci on low end filters.
In neglected oci's with metal end caps, I've seen the glue unbond from the metal endcaps.
My coworker went a year oci with a baldwin cellulose media oil filter, and the element falls apart real easily as predicted after the year.
 
^^^He did this on my direction and ran a high end synthetic.^^^ For a while he had a bad t-stat that could have let too much moisture stay in the oil and brake down a paper element sooner.
 
^^yes they can loosen. The good thing is the metal endcaps will stay in place regardless because of the spring pressure but the cardboard fiber can and has fell apart creating sever damage
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
How does someone get the acronym ICE and OCI mixed up ?


Thanks, I thought this was a thread about an ice maker .
 
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