What is the iron issue with Mobil 1?

[NismoMax80]

someone educate me as to wear the iron comes from please. Does it apply to my all aluminum block?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

yes, It will come from your valvetrain and clylinder walls.

 

[ericthepig]

Here's a touch of anecdotal data - My '98 Sienna is apparently known for heat issues. I bought it at 62k miles (apparently very well maint.). I ran the various M1 regular lines in it for 80k (max 9k OCIs, typical was 8k, a couple of 4k w/ 0w30 over the winter months). Toyota mech was in the engine (valve cover gaskets & timing belt) at the end of this 80k run. Said engine was clean. Fine. However, I had significant oil consumption w/ no obvious source. Discussing this with BITOGr (toyota mech) Mokanic - it's apparently gummed oil rings. Mokanic said you can have a clean engine, but gummed rings. So M1 may run clean, but it apparently didn't stave off ring deposits.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

TO be fair That engine has some inherent flaws. Mobile uno was incapable of handling the xtreme conditions the piston rings in this engine presented. (anectodotaly of course)

 

[ericthepig]

 Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr

TO be fair That engine has some inherent flaws. Mobile uno was incapable of handling the xtreme conditions the piston rings in this engine presented. (anectodotaly of course)

True. And I for one have a lot of peace of mind when M1 is in the sump. I'll take deposit resistence in exchange for +10ppm Fe and sleep good.

 

[Nickdfresh]

 Originally Posted By: buster

My best guess would be that M1 just trades off a bit of cam lobe wear protection, for high temperature deposits. It's known to keep engines spotless, many of which are high performance engines. Mobil performing poorly in the Seq IVA test wouldn't surprise me. It would also not surprise me if conventional oils like ybp do better at control cam lobe wear.

That all may be true. But I'd like to see the test performed not by a competing oil company with obvious marketing intentions, and using an old Nissan 4-cyl. engine for both tests. I'd like to see it done by an unbiased consumer group using a wider range of of engines and conditions..

 

[buster]

 Quote:

And I for one have a lot of peace of mind when M1 is in the sump. I'll take deposit resistence in exchange for +10ppm Fe and sleep good.

Yep and engines are not wearing out.

 

[bepperb]

"I'd like to see it done by an unbiased consumer group using a wider range of of engines and conditions" Every time Consumer Reports does any test on motor oil, there is no distinguishable difference between oils, and their advice is just to change it. And I can't blame them. But I was surprised that there was no difference between Syn and Dino in cabs.

 

[tig1]

 Originally Posted By: ericthepig

Here's a touch of anecdotal data - My '98 Sienna is apparently known for heat issues. I bought it at 62k miles (apparently very well maint.). I ran the various M1 regular lines in it for 80k (max 9k OCIs, typical was 8k, a couple of 4k w/ 0w30 over the winter months). Toyota mech was in the engine (valve cover gaskets & timing belt) at the end of this 80k run. Said engine was clean. Fine. However, I had significant oil consumption w/ no obvious source. Discussing this with BITOGr (toyota mech) Mokanic - it's apparently gummed oil rings. Mokanic said you can have a clean engine, but gummed rings. So M1 may run clean, but it apparently didn't stave off ring deposits.

1) Rings don't gum up, they can carbon up which leaves the rings incapable of expanding against the cylinder walls allowing oil to pass by and losing compression. 2) M1 5-30 is very good at resisting heat deposites( Hondas HTO turbo spec)and the area around the top rings is some of highest heat parts of the engine. Without pulling a piston there's no way to know about stuck rings except maybe a compression test. 3) If the rest of the engine is that clean and you do have carboned rings there must be a serious design flaw for your type of engine.

 

[Ben99GT]

 Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh

That all may be true. But I'd like to see the test performed not by a competing oil company with obvious marketing intentions, and using an old Nissan 4-cyl. engine for both tests.

That test requires that old Nissan engine.

 

[ericthepig]

 Originally Posted By: tig1

Rings don't gum up, they can carbon up...

When I look at the company specs & web sites for a variety of engine flush products - they use the same expression "gummed rings". I've never seen the expression "carboned up" on any such write-up - though it's technically accurate. I think (I may be wrong) that "gummed up" is a catch all phrase for carbon deposits or for a sludged oil ring pack. (?) Ie, anything that makes them stick improperly.

 Originally Posted By: tig1

If the rest of the engine is that clean and you do have carboned rings there must be a serious design flaw for your type of engine.

Just quoting Mokanic when I was mentioning the ring issue - and it's apparently not limited to my engine. He's a Toyota Master tech with his own mechanic business - been in a lot of engines - pointed out that this can be an issue w/ a variety of late model engines since most all going to ultra low tension oil rings. He stated engines are now burning very clean, but extended oil drains and some other issues can still take their toll. (Still qouting Mokanic if I remember his post correctly.)

 

[ericthepig]

Here's the Mokanic post I was refering to -

 Originally Posted By: Mokanic

Low-tension rings were initially seen on race engines way back as a way to free up horse power from decreasing drag that all internal moving parts have. Toyota/Honda led the way on passenger car applications way back in the mid-80s. Now,regardless of the car manufacterer, just about all gasoline engines have low-tension rings in them. They decrease engine wear,heat,and moving mass but they also are more inclined to stick in applications that see infrequent oil services or in the case of the Toyota Avalon/Camry engines that due to design are rougher on oil. Today, even your diesels are using the design and the trend is going to even lower tension rings with thinner designs. The top compression ring on my old 81 22R is thicker than ALL three rings combined on some new applications. The oils are better now and engine designs(as a whole)are running cleaner than ever.

 

[tig1]

I must admit I don't know much about Asian engines but I've never seen a Ford with stuck rings unless the OCI was greatly abused with dino. I know many friends and family that use M1 oils and I have never heard of that problem even with engines with well over 200-300,000 miles.

 

[StevieC]

 Originally Posted By: tig1

I must admit I don't know much about Asian engines but I've never seen a Ford with stuck rings unless the OCI was greatly abused with dino. I know many friends and family that use M1 oils and I have never heard of that problem even with engines with well over 200-300,000 miles.

I think it has to do with the Asian engines running slightly higher oil temps, slighty higher compression, smaller sumps, and higher revving engines. That being said I have never had the problem with any of my asian engines.

 

[tig1]

 Originally Posted By: StevieC

 Originally Posted By: tig1

I must admit I don't know much about Asian engines but I've never seen a Ford with stuck rings unless the OCI was greatly abused with dino. I know many friends and family that use M1 oils and I have never heard of that problem even with engines with well over 200-300,000 miles.

I think it has to do with the Asian engines running slightly higher oil temps, slighty higher compression, smaller sumps, and higher revving engines. That being said I have never had the problem with any of my asian engines.

I'm sure you pay close attention to OCIs and use the best oils.

 

[StevieC]

That I do... If the oil so much as looks at me the wrong way I will change it, it's the Italian in me!

 

[ericthepig]

 Originally Posted By: StevieC

That being said I have never had the problem with any of my asian engines.

I can't say with 100% confidence that the oil rings were my issue - but deduction pretty much got me there. In my mind, this issue raises concern in me concerning the extended OCI. All these companies claiming extended OCIs (and I'm one of their customers) - yes, it's easy to chk if the engine is varnishing heavily, and sludging is detectable with a little effort, and then there's the UOA data. But the ring area is something no one sees w/o timely and costly intrusion on the engine. Bottom line - (if memory serves me) I was burning a qt in 4k when I started my 80k run on M1. At the end of 80k (and with plenty of 8k OCIs in a known problematic engine), I had 2.5x that consumption. Then, I ran thru a Mokanic recommended regimen of Neutra 131 and it cut my consumption back down in half (the regimen was designed to attack the ring area). But, the evidence is all circumstantial - no one saw the oil rings before or after - so it's all conjecture in the end.

 

[StevieC]

Dunno... I know Mitsu engines are known for bad valve seals and stuck rings and oil consumption, but then you get my dad which has a Caravan with a 3.0 Litre Mitsu which has used nothing but the cheapest of oils run 6K miles with an Orange-Can filter and it runs fine with little consumption and no-smoke with over 300K KM (180K Miles) I think you might just have bad luck with that engine.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Do the "excessive engine noise with M1" posts have any correlation to the higher iron levels?????

 

[d00df00d]

 Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm

Do the "excessive engine noise with M1" posts have any correlation to the higher iron levels?????

Yes. Both claims are questionably relevant at best, and spurious at worst.