What is the best oil for your Honda VTEC engine? Check this out.
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You have two SYNTHETIC motor oils!!!quote:
Originally posted by bar1:
Well, what do we have here???
Fuchs TITAN GT1 SAE 0W-20
http://www.fuchs-oil.de/1542.html
and Fuchs Silkolene PRO R SAE 0W-20
http://www.fuchs-silkolene.com/scri...olene/scripts/mainframe.d4w?sid=26784215&mm=2
"There is simply no way to make a quality 5w-20 oil from a Grp I that is going to hold up very long in an engine. Without any supply of Grp II hydrocracked oils, the only way to make a good 5w-20 would be to use synthetics -- Grp III’s and up. But then, if a manufacturer spec’s 5w-20 outside NA, they would basically be forcing these people to use synthetics -- and the cost issue comes into play. The average motorist will balk at the cost of synthetics. "
Do you honestly expect a mfg to spec 5w-20 when the only choice consumers would have is to buy expensive synthetics?!!?!?!!?
sxg6, One of the most common oils is 5w-30 conventional, which has been around for 20 years or more. It would take less viscosity index improver to make a 5w-20 conventional than the 5w-30. So why is a synthetic required for a 5w-20? That doesn't add up to me.
Honda is the fifth-largest marketer of vehicles in the United States, second-largest in Japan, and the largest manufacturer of engines in the world - more than 10 million per year. Seventy percent of its 2001 model year U.S. fleet, including all Civics and Accords, are being sold with 5w-20 oil in the crankcase along with a recommendation in the owner's manual to use 5w-20 for all oil changes. This will move to 90 percent within a few years.
Honda's reasons for moving to 5w-20 parallels Ford's but without the CAFE incentive. As Honda's Principle Chemist Jeff Jetter puts it, "We're so far ahead of the mpg curve that CAFE was not an issue. We meet EPA requirements easily. But we're a very 'green' company and believe that the fuel economy improvement provided by 5w-20 is important."
Jetter adds, "We've used low-viscosity oil in the Japan market for a number of years and our testing indicates that it's acceptable here for Civics back to 1996 and Accords back to 1998. We're satisfied with backward compatibility of 5w20 in our earlier models. Durability is not an issue, either. If it were, we wouldn't recommend 5w-20."
http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/baseoils/pdf/0201a.pdf
So, Honda, unlike Ford, isn't claiming that 5w-20 is actually better than thicker oils.
Honda clearly states that it's done for fuel economy only.
From that article:
"Unlike Ford, Honda's owner's manual includes a statement that if 5W-20 is not available, 5w-30 is acceptable - but the next oil change should be 5W-20.
In addition to assuring itself that the claimed fuel efficiency benefits for 5W-20 were real, EPA was concerned that customers actually use the new oil and there be adequate supplies to meet marketplace demand.
Ford's unambiqious owner's manual message to use 5W-20, without recourse to an alternative oil like 5W-30, is as strong a message as we could reasonably make to our customers in promoting this new oil."
Conclusion: 5W-20's are here to improve fuel economy (marginally) to satisfy CAFE or to promote "Green" image.
They don't provide any extra protection or durability, but do provide adequate protection for an average consumer.
Europe so far stays away from thinner oils.
To improve fuel economy they utilize more effective solutions like smaller cars with smaller engines and diesels.
[ June 19, 2006, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: vad ]
Honda clearly states that it's done for fuel economy only.
From that article:
"Unlike Ford, Honda's owner's manual includes a statement that if 5W-20 is not available, 5w-30 is acceptable - but the next oil change should be 5W-20.
In addition to assuring itself that the claimed fuel efficiency benefits for 5W-20 were real, EPA was concerned that customers actually use the new oil and there be adequate supplies to meet marketplace demand.
Ford's unambiqious owner's manual message to use 5W-20, without recourse to an alternative oil like 5W-30, is as strong a message as we could reasonably make to our customers in promoting this new oil."
Conclusion: 5W-20's are here to improve fuel economy (marginally) to satisfy CAFE or to promote "Green" image.
They don't provide any extra protection or durability, but do provide adequate protection for an average consumer.
Europe so far stays away from thinner oils.
To improve fuel economy they utilize more effective solutions like smaller cars with smaller engines and diesels.
[ June 19, 2006, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: vad ]
It's done for fuel economy, yes. And, as summarized by Honda's Principle Chemist Jeff Jetter, durability is not effected. Further, all the evidence we've seen here to date substantiates that claim. Keep using thicker oil if it makes you feel better, but you're just wasting gas.
If the auto industry is going to change engine oil, it's got to start somewhere. Now that we have determined that detergent oil is good, and detergent multi-grade better it's time to move on. Detergent multi-grade, thinner oil may be better yet. Those that resist the change for new cars are beginning to sound like someone saying, detergent oil isn't going into my new car. It will plug up the filter and all the oil passages and destroy my engine. The oil companies do a pretty good job with engine oil. When you consider what it has to do, you have to admit that engine oil is an amazing product. I don't think there is any grand plan to improve gas mileage and have an engine wear out at the end of the warrany period. Be brave, like your grandparents were when they tried detergent oil. Follow the owner's manual. If it reads, 5w-20, you be brave, too.
If 5w-20 works in my car in N.A., who cares what they do in Europe?
Hi
Since I started this post let me chime in.
I am trying to confirm that the best oil for my Honda is not 5-20 but 10-30 or 10-40. I am not saying you cannot use 5-20 oils - such statement would not hold. Obviously you can, but from the link I posted, from the many mechanics I spoke to (who work with Japanese cars), from my own's family experience, AND common sense (in my view) here is what I conclude:
1. 5-20 oils are only for the US in order to promote company as green and to (dispite what Honda says) improve CAFE requirements;
2. My many family members in Europe tremble at the notion of using 5-20 oil.Whay? Because they do extended OCIs, they drive manuals (which revs the engine higher), and their engines are drive in a "spirited" way;
3. If thinner oils are better then how come for any engine that is "higher revving" heavier oils are recommended.
I think, honestly, it is a common sense here that some (and soon others will follow) car manufacturers in the US only figured lets use 5-20 oils for cafe and for average Joe who changes oil every 3 k miles and does not really tax the engine that will be fine (because its a 3k change).
Interestingly enough, how come there is no extended protection Mobil 1 5-20 oil?
I will NOT use 5-20 in my Hondas no matter what the "manual" says. At least US manual. I will use 0-30 in the winter and 10-30 in the summer (or even 10-40).
But that is just me because I don't care about an extra half a mile per galon. I care that my car gets the best engine protection even at high speeds/spirited driving.
As for why I posted this? Because this is an open forum and I felt like it. It is an interesting subject. If you don't like the threat then skip it (this is to the poster who "rolled eyes" at this threat). Move on and don't worry about it. Those of use who wish to talk about this ongoing issue will do so.
Fair enough?
Since I started this post let me chime in.
I am trying to confirm that the best oil for my Honda is not 5-20 but 10-30 or 10-40. I am not saying you cannot use 5-20 oils - such statement would not hold. Obviously you can, but from the link I posted, from the many mechanics I spoke to (who work with Japanese cars), from my own's family experience, AND common sense (in my view) here is what I conclude:
1. 5-20 oils are only for the US in order to promote company as green and to (dispite what Honda says) improve CAFE requirements;
2. My many family members in Europe tremble at the notion of using 5-20 oil.Whay? Because they do extended OCIs, they drive manuals (which revs the engine higher), and their engines are drive in a "spirited" way;
3. If thinner oils are better then how come for any engine that is "higher revving" heavier oils are recommended.
I think, honestly, it is a common sense here that some (and soon others will follow) car manufacturers in the US only figured lets use 5-20 oils for cafe and for average Joe who changes oil every 3 k miles and does not really tax the engine that will be fine (because its a 3k change).
Interestingly enough, how come there is no extended protection Mobil 1 5-20 oil?
I will NOT use 5-20 in my Hondas no matter what the "manual" says. At least US manual. I will use 0-30 in the winter and 10-30 in the summer (or even 10-40).
But that is just me because I don't care about an extra half a mile per galon. I care that my car gets the best engine protection even at high speeds/spirited driving.
As for why I posted this? Because this is an open forum and I felt like it. It is an interesting subject. If you don't like the threat then skip it (this is to the poster who "rolled eyes" at this threat). Move on and don't worry about it. Those of use who wish to talk about this ongoing issue will do so.
Fair enough?
427Z06 - "wasting gas"?
I drive two 4cyl cars. If you want to talk about wasting gas then talk to those who drive H2s with8 cyl engines. That is their right of course but don't send you "conserve gas" message to the wrong address.
I drive two 4cyl cars. If you want to talk about wasting gas then talk to those who drive H2s with8 cyl engines. That is their right of course but don't send you "conserve gas" message to the wrong address.
I may do a fair amount of highway driving, but i also drive my car hard from time to time when safe to do so. 7,600mi may not be a long oci, but with a tbn of 6.0.. This oil still has plenty of active additives in it. Wear numbers are good, the oil's viscosity is still strong.. Its a 5spd, high revving honda motor. 5w-20 looks to be doing a fine job.
They probably tremble at the thought because they fear change like most people in the world.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003565
I think it comes down to what you want to do. As for "which is best" ... maybe thats what Accord is trying to find out? I know if my car asked for 5w20 I'd be pretty whacked out about it (as I'm a heavier oil = better guy).
Hi Sxg6,
What I can tell you is that the cars there are kept for (easy) 10-20 years. And if you ever drove in, lets say, Italy you would see how much pressure they put in an 1.4 liter engine, with 4 people inside, trying to pass the car in front on two lane opposite traffic highway, while going uphil.
Don't forget - 2 liter engine is considered big in Europe. Most engines are from 1 liter to 1.4 or 1.6 liters.
As for "fear" of change in Europe? Sorry - nonsense. Europe imposes more advanced and stringed requirements (EU) on the cars (and food, and drinks and many other things) there.
But, also Europeans don't buy "one size fits all" b.s. That is why the oil companies could not sell 5-20 (or any singlular grade) oil in Europe, especially not as oil that fits all. While (respectfully) we in the US like to "simplify" things (i.e. predominent use of automatics) the Europeans tend to "sacrifice" a bit of "confort" to actually driving the car (manual) and don't cringe from multi-viscosity recommendations.
What I can tell you is that the cars there are kept for (easy) 10-20 years. And if you ever drove in, lets say, Italy you would see how much pressure they put in an 1.4 liter engine, with 4 people inside, trying to pass the car in front on two lane opposite traffic highway, while going uphil.
Don't forget - 2 liter engine is considered big in Europe. Most engines are from 1 liter to 1.4 or 1.6 liters.
As for "fear" of change in Europe? Sorry - nonsense. Europe imposes more advanced and stringed requirements (EU) on the cars (and food, and drinks and many other things) there.
But, also Europeans don't buy "one size fits all" b.s. That is why the oil companies could not sell 5-20 (or any singlular grade) oil in Europe, especially not as oil that fits all. While (respectfully) we in the US like to "simplify" things (i.e. predominent use of automatics) the Europeans tend to "sacrifice" a bit of "confort" to actually driving the car (manual) and don't cringe from multi-viscosity recommendations.
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