Interesting reading the first couple of posts about how the H-D engine needs to be rebuilt at about 80,000. This is just wrong. It depends on how you ride, the oil you use, the frequency of changes, etc. Later posts indicate 150,000 miles is to be expected if you care for your Harley. I can show you EVO bikes in my area that have over 200,000 on them with virtually no major engine work ever having been done. These riders know how to ride and know the value of maintenance - in fact, they consider proper maintenance a large part of the enjoyment of the biker experience. Take care of your machine and forget about longevity - it'll last as long as you want to own it.
What is the average life span of a Harley engine?
- Thread starter Chris B.
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What do you mean by "knowing how to ride"? I'm new to bikes and probibly don't shift as smooth as I should sometimes. Sometime I find myself lugging it a little or not getting off the gas all the way when shifting and the bike jumps up a bit. I even forgot to put my choke in a few times!
I'm getting better but could I be harming the engine or reducing the life? I will be changing the oil every 2,000 miles and doing all proper maintenance with quality fluids.
I'm getting better but could I be harming the engine or reducing the life? I will be changing the oil every 2,000 miles and doing all proper maintenance with quality fluids.
On a non-wet clutch bike, even an air-cooled one, as long as you aren't cooking that thing in extremely hot conditions, 2000 mile oil changes are overkill. I used to have an oil temperture oil guage on my Harley's, the worst I ever saw was idling in traffic in the summer. Riding at 100 + degrees down the highway wasn't so bad. I guess pulling up a mountain in the heat might be as bad or worse than idling. Might save you some money for an extra piece of chrome! B`)
I think that the term "average" lifespan is a very very hard thing to put a number on. I work in the service department of a Harley dealer and I can tell you that "needing a rebuild" and "might as well do it while we're replacing gaskets" are 2 totally different things. The EVO engines, in particular, are infamous for base gasket leaks. So, when the heads and cylinders come off we often find that the cylinders have score marks, the rings are worn, or the heads have leaky valve seals that the owner didnt have the slightest idea about. That being said, with the EVO, Top-end refreshes tend to be done at 30-40K miles. This doesnt even touch the cam case, where you have a tendancy to lose lifter roller bearings by 50k.
The Twin Cam doesnt eat rings as fast, it seems, but then you have the issue of cam chain tensioners.
So, all that being said, does it really require a rebuild/refresh at 30-40k miles? Depends on how anal you are. Chances are good if you give the engine adequate warm up time to where the rocker covers are warm to touch(typically maybe 30% of our customer base) it will give you very long life without headaches.
And yes, I am a pretty big proponent of synthetics in an air cooled engine.
The Twin Cam doesnt eat rings as fast, it seems, but then you have the issue of cam chain tensioners.
So, all that being said, does it really require a rebuild/refresh at 30-40k miles? Depends on how anal you are. Chances are good if you give the engine adequate warm up time to where the rocker covers are warm to touch(typically maybe 30% of our customer base) it will give you very long life without headaches.
And yes, I am a pretty big proponent of synthetics in an air cooled engine.
How long would you say is long enough for warm up? My owners book for my 2006 Sportster says start the engine with the choke 100% out and let it sit for 15 seconds then push it 1/2 way in and drive for 1 to 2 miles then push it in all the way. Is 15 seconds good enough warm up before you start driving? I usually wate a little longer(30 seconds to a minute).
a couple time I forgot to push the choke in! How bad it that? Thank you!
Chris it depends alot on the outside temp. Normal say 70's deg day. The way your doing now is fine. Cooler days may require a couple of minutes.As Wizzells said make sure the top of your motor is warm to the touch before heading down the road.
As for forgetting about the choke a couple times.
I would bet almost every rider here has done that few times. Doing it a lot or riding for a long period,would have a negitive effect. Since you are washing some of the oil from the rings with the fuel and casuing some fuel/oil contamination.
But nothing that would do permit damage to the motor in most cases.
As for forgetting about the choke a couple times.
I would bet almost every rider here has done that few times. Doing it a lot or riding for a long period,would have a negitive effect. Since you are washing some of the oil from the rings with the fuel and casuing some fuel/oil contamination.
But nothing that would do permit damage to the motor in most cases.
Ditto Everything LC said. It may require a few minutes before the rocker covers get warm, but rest assured that while all of this is warming up you are insuring that everything is expanding in and sealing up as neccessary. There is a heck of a lot of expansion that goes on between that 45 degree "V". Just remember that if you arent gonna wait until the rocker covers are warm to take off and ride, dont hammer on it until its fully warm. I've seen so many people crack the throttle right after they fire it up and just fly away from the shop. I'd be willing to bet that 90% of those people develop oil leaks prematurely and this is the direct cause!
Leaving the choke out isnt the end of the world, but if you always leave it out while riding, its gonna hurt your gas mileage, dilute your oil with gas, and possibly foul the plugs.
I meet plenty of EVO Harley owners that go 80,000 miles, a few that go well over 100,000 miles. Slowly but surely I am getting drug into the Harley performance world, with a modified Harley all bets are off. Even if it is a "factory" Screaming Eagle conversion. Like I said before, you can get a leak at any time and apparently your mechanic may recommend sprucing up the valves or rings at that time. I would say that it is "unusual" for a stock Harley to "need" serious attention before that, but it sure does happen. By the way, the latest Sportsters are proving to be more durable than the EVO versions.
Chris,
Welcome to the club! Is this your first bike? I went through a couple Yamahas and Kawasakis before I dropped my money on a Road King. I've got 40K on my engine and it is highly modified. I've known people to get over 100K easily on their big twins.
One word of advice, buy a shop manual. They won't break the bank (I think $50-$70), and they will pay dividends later on if you want to add anything to the bike. I use the Amsoil 20W50 oil and so far it seems to work well (there is a UOA I just posted today if you want to check). I just bought some 75W90 for the gearbox from Specialty Formulations - figured I would give it a try. Someone else on this board bought it and raved about it. My transmission is a little sticky from abuse (I am putting out about 90HP to the wheel). The only major engine work I have had was a clutch replacement and it was at 35K. I would have expected it to go sooner actually. So far I am pleased. I had more problems with my Japanese bikes actually.
Keep the rubber side down!
Enjoy the bike!
Welcome to the club! Is this your first bike? I went through a couple Yamahas and Kawasakis before I dropped my money on a Road King. I've got 40K on my engine and it is highly modified. I've known people to get over 100K easily on their big twins.
One word of advice, buy a shop manual. They won't break the bank (I think $50-$70), and they will pay dividends later on if you want to add anything to the bike. I use the Amsoil 20W50 oil and so far it seems to work well (there is a UOA I just posted today if you want to check). I just bought some 75W90 for the gearbox from Specialty Formulations - figured I would give it a try. Someone else on this board bought it and raved about it. My transmission is a little sticky from abuse (I am putting out about 90HP to the wheel). The only major engine work I have had was a clutch replacement and it was at 35K. I would have expected it to go sooner actually. So far I am pleased. I had more problems with my Japanese bikes actually.
Keep the rubber side down!
Enjoy the bike!
I don't think anyone answered this question, but there should be a drain "screw" on the primary. It will be towards the bottom but it will be on the side not on the bottom of the bike. At least that is the way it is on my Wife's Fat Boy and my Road King. I have never worked on a sportster.quote:
Originally posted by Chris B.:
So if I take off that big primary cover I assume the fluid will drain out. How do you fill it up as I can not find the fill hole?
Also is the primary also know as the transmission? Sorryfor the dumb questions! Got to learn some where.
Insert another plea to buy a shop manual. You need to know how much oil to put in the primary (there isn't a disptick), etc. Certain things, like you need to remove an oil pressure sensor to take the oil filter off (on my 2 bikes) is good information to know. You would probably figure most of the stuff out eventually, but why risk it?
The Amsoil is good for all 3 holes, by the way. Like the Harley Syn3, it is shear stable enough to be put in the transmission. I'll opt for a gear oil, but that is just me. The Amsoil was cheaper where I live then the Syn3 so I went with it over the Syn3.
I stopped by a little store on state route 18 in North Carolina, a bit north of North Wilkesboro the other day...
There was an old newspaper clipping of Dave Willet and his '87 Tour Glide, mentioning that it had gone 416,000+ miles with no major engine work.
I know one of the mechanics that was familiar with that bike during that very extended run. The oil was changed at 2500 mile intervals, and Harley 20W50 dino oil was all that was ever used. The Evolution engine is indeed a fantastic, durable design. And there may not be a more durable motorcycle engine in existence. Another Evo went over 460,000 miles for an elderly gentleman in the Pacific Northwest, running a side car. He also used the Harley dino oil, and also had no overhaul in that period of miles.
I'll try to have my camera next time I go by there and get a photo of that Dave Willet clipping. Interesting read.
Dan
There was an old newspaper clipping of Dave Willet and his '87 Tour Glide, mentioning that it had gone 416,000+ miles with no major engine work.
I know one of the mechanics that was familiar with that bike during that very extended run. The oil was changed at 2500 mile intervals, and Harley 20W50 dino oil was all that was ever used. The Evolution engine is indeed a fantastic, durable design. And there may not be a more durable motorcycle engine in existence. Another Evo went over 460,000 miles for an elderly gentleman in the Pacific Northwest, running a side car. He also used the Harley dino oil, and also had no overhaul in that period of miles.
I'll try to have my camera next time I go by there and get a photo of that Dave Willet clipping. Interesting read.
Dan
I'm currently riding 2 different baggers, A 95 EVO models that has about 145,000 miles on it and an 01 TC that is past the 90,000 mile mark.
typical of any harley, it will last forever if you want to keep repairing it.
yes the EVO has had the top end done at the 80k mark due to a valve leaking and it got the whole routine like somebody else sed, "while I'm in ther I might as well"
The TC needed cam tensioners by 40 k, they were shot.
typical of any harley, it will last forever if you want to keep repairing it.
yes the EVO has had the top end done at the 80k mark due to a valve leaking and it got the whole routine like somebody else sed, "while I'm in ther I might as well"
The TC needed cam tensioners by 40 k, they were shot.
I sit and reread the jist of this thread and think the Question is unanswerable.
most people dont ride their bike enough to wear it out, and half of em modify their bike to the point where that cuts into the longevity of it.
so many factors. .
if you ride and maintain it like an adult, it will hold up alot longer than if you ride it like the average brainless, testosterone filled 19 year old who buys a Ninja.
most people dont ride their bike enough to wear it out, and half of em modify their bike to the point where that cuts into the longevity of it.
so many factors. .
if you ride and maintain it like an adult, it will hold up alot longer than if you ride it like the average brainless, testosterone filled 19 year old who buys a Ninja.
I dont have the answer either but properly maintained and rode with some sence a long time is my guess.
We have had 3 teenagers killed in less than 2 weeks here all riding crotch rockets and speed was the cause. Its just a shame.
We have had 3 teenagers killed in less than 2 weeks here all riding crotch rockets and speed was the cause. Its just a shame.
Since Harleys do not have a sight-glass for checking fluid levels, each can be a pain initially.
On my Harley FatBoy:
First, get yourself a good motorcycle jack or stands to keep the bike up level. Make sure the bike is warmed up as the aluminum engine expands a quite a bit and can throw off the reading (some disagree with this as it relates to transmission fluid levels).
Next, after the bike is plumb and level, call your friends and invite them over for beers..no wait, take the transmission dipstick out. It has an allen head and should never be put in more than finger tight. Wipe clean and now the fun begins.
The dipstick measures the fluid level when it rests on top of the threads of the fill hole and not when screwed back in (unlike motor oil levels which require the dipstick to be pushed all the way in). The dipstick must be kept even with the threads of the fill hole. However, the fill hole is at about a 45 degree angle, give or take. If the angle is not kept it can throw the reading off.
What I do is put a piece of duct tape in the allen head of the dipstick and then gently insert the allen wrench. The wrench stays snug in the allen head and allows me to use the wrench as an extension and place the dipstick even with the threads at the required angle. Check it and fill as needed. Remove the tape and then screw in the dipstick finger tight (please don't ask me how I know one should follow the book on this...)Once you do it a few times it gets easy.
Bob W.
I think it was a lack of maturity, intelligence and common sense that was the cause.
If ever there was an good argument for a tiered licensing system, it is these 150 + mph stock motorcycles that any kid with a few bucks can buy.
Bob W.
Maybe there should be a strict requirement that prospective motorcyclists under age ?25? take a series of required rider safety courses & also take a tour of the local morgue, to see first hand the effects of excessive speed and/or reckless driving.
And I thought I was the only one that boogered up the transmission dipstickquote:
Originally posted by TheFuror:
Remove the tape and then screw in the dipstick finger tight (please don't ask me how I know one should follow the book on this...)Once you do it a few times it gets easy.
Bob W.
If you have to go in at an angle to unscrew the dipstick - WAIT! you need to buy one of these:
ball hex bit
You may not need them on your bike, but if you can't make a direct flat contact I would highly recommend them. I have the SK set, but there are a lot of other brands that are just as good.
Oh, and an investment in a torque wrench will pay dividends later - don't overtorque.
The Blue loctite is your friend, use it on any new parts you buy.
The Blue loctite is your friend, use it on any new parts you buy.
The primary fluid is also trans fluid on your sportster. Use the harley sport trans fluid. After draining the primary by removing the 5/8 drain plug on the bottom of the primary( under the clutch), remove the clutch cover. Pour in the sport tans fluid up to the bottom of the clutch basket. All of this is done with the motorcycle straight up not on the stand.
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