What happens if you move and leave items behind?

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: Number21
....

My question is, what happens when you move out of a leased space and leave items for 3 months? At a minimum, he's not getting his forklift back until he pays me storage fees. At what point does the property become abandoned?

In my state in the absence of a statute, abandonment requires an actual intent by the property owner to abandon his or her property. In reading your posts, it seems to me that intent is lacking.

Since the situation has gone so far south, you would probably be well served by a consultation with a lawyer licensed to practice in your state, and familiar with these types of rental issues.




I posted a link to an Oregon attorney's website. That attorney stated that in Oregon, there are clear statutes on how to handle abandoned property left on residential real estate. However, commercial real estate has zero established law and relies on court precedents. In that case an attorney specializing in this may be needed.

 

[Number21]

The breaking in part is pretty cut and dry here, I have voicemails from him admitting the crimes. He doesn't dispute it.

The forklift is going to be a separate issue. The cops say this is a civil issue, so I'll probably end up suing him. I will probably use a lawyer for that. No, we did not ever give him official notices on this. BUT, at the same time, there has to be some time limit to when you can get your stuff. I moved out of another shop 4 years ago, and I left a shelf behind. I still have a key for that door. Of course I have no right to go and take it back! Maybe at 29 days I did, but not after years. The question here is what is that time limit.

Even if it was still legally his forklift, he can't just take it when he owes me storage fees. Just like if your car gets towed you can't just go take it back until you pay it off.

 

[eljefino]

Without having served him notice you'll waste your filing fee.

This legitimately sounds like a case for "The People's Court"... I see no clear winner, it's petty, there's drama. You and the Fork guy split a TV appearance fee of $5000. Think it over.

 

[Number21]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Without having served him notice you'll waste your filing fee.

As y_p_w pointed out, there is no clear requirement in the Oregon statutes to serve any notice. You have to understand how extremely different commercial and residential property is.

Oregon law basically lets you set your own rules in the contract for commercial real estate. The problem comes when you have no contract, no rules have been set for either party. There should be a default set of laws if you have no contract, but there aren't.

That's why the forklift is a question for a lawyer.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Number21
The breaking in part is pretty cut and dry here, I have voicemails from him admitting the crimes. He doesn't dispute it.

The forklift is going to be a separate issue. The cops say this is a civil issue, so I'll probably end up suing him. I will probably use a lawyer for that. No, we did not ever give him official notices on this. BUT, at the same time, there has to be some time limit to when you can get your stuff. I moved out of another shop 4 years ago, and I left a shelf behind. I still have a key for that door. Of course I have no right to go and take it back! Maybe at 29 days I did, but not after years. The question here is what is that time limit.

Even if it was still legally his forklift, he can't just take it when he owes me storage fees. Just like if your car gets towed you can't just go take it back until you pay it off.

It sounds like renting commercial real estate in Oregon is a mess without written laws. Seriously though, you're probably going to need an attorney since it has become a civil matter.

I'm just wondering how anyone managed to survive as a business owner with this attitude towards running a business and dealing with stuff he believes is his property. I remember once I forgot to pick up a pair or shoes I had repaired, and I got yelled at for claiming them a week late.

 

[whip]

Does spending $5,000 on a lawyer to sue the guy for $5,000 really make sense?

 

[eljefino]

Keep in contact with the police. Hopefully with the breaking and entering charges, the guy will cop a plea which involves paying your damages. This might go easier than suing him, which you'll have ample time to do if the criminal case doesn't work out.

 

[FirstNissan]

definitely press the cops to have him pay for any damages, get the landlord involved asap and make it his/her headache as well. That's what you pay rent for.

 

[Number21]

Originally Posted By: whip
Does spending $5,000 on a lawyer to sue the guy for $5,000 really make sense?


You realize when you lose a court case you often have to pay the other side's legal fees, right?

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Number21
Originally Posted By: whip
Does spending $5,000 on a lawyer to sue the guy for $5,000 really make sense?


You realize when you lose a court case you often have to pay the other side's legal fees, right?

Are you planning on suing him or do you think he's going to sue you? Is it really worth your time and the hassle to take this to court? Besides that, it's up to a judge to determine damages and if legal fees are awarded. If you didn't do things by the book (give written notice with a deadline and clear storage fees), there might even be an implied understanding under case law that you can't collect for storage.

Seriously - once the criminal case is over and the forklift is no longer considered evidence, you might just want to hand it over to save all that uncertainty. It sounds like you don't really care about the forklift other than how storing it and dealing with the previous tenant has [censored] you off.

I would have gone to the landlord and told him to store the forklift and deal with the previous tenant. It sounds like this has taken way more of your time than it should have.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: Number21
Originally Posted By: whip
Does spending $5,000 on a lawyer to sue the guy for $5,000 really make sense?


You realize when you lose a court case you often have to pay the other side's legal fees, right?

Sometimes, but not always. To me, it's not a risk I would take. Honestly, it sounds like you've spent a lot of time and energy on this already. If I were in your postition, I'd just wash my hands of it, and move on with running my own business.

 

[Kuato]