What happened to rust proofing?

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Overkill - he must have meant the price for 2 cars total.

Like EVERYTHING you pay for, you have to be your own self advocate. A medical procedure or rust proofing - no difference. You talk to the owner and more important, you talk to the technician and express your desire to have your vehicle done properly. Look it over before you leave and politely, but assertively (different than aggressively) have them touch up any areas missed.

Frequent car washing to prevent rust? That's laughable in Michigan (no disrespect intended). We get weeks of wet, salty roads. Washing off the salt to have it re-immersed the next day is fruitless and only provides a feel good effect. We are having a week long reprieve right now, so maybe a wash is in order. It will make me feel good, but the Krown treatment makes me feel "gooder"




Yes, especially when it turns milder out as that is when the salt really goes to work. If it is really cold out, there is no point as the salt on and under your car isn't doing as much harm.

Occasionally, on the milder days, I'll take the garden hose and spray up under the fenders/wheel wells to get all that salt and sand out. It is amazing how much collects in those places, including the backside of bumpers.

My local drive through car wash gets crazy busy on those milder days as people also know the salt needs to come off to stop the rusting process, even though it is likely only temporary or until more salt is added to the roads.

I do the above even though both my vehicles are rust proofed/undercoated.

Oh and the local car wash has some kind of rust inhibitor as part of the wash. Not sure what they use, but some greenish liquid drips down afterwards. I don't think there's actually too many rust proofing shops around here, most of them went out of business.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JC1
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: JC1
Rust proofing is still around. Those who don't maintain their cars or only keep their cars for 5-7 years think it's a waste of time.

I used to get my cars rustproofed at Krown and Rust Check. They both made mistakes and missed panels years after year. On my wife's 97 Civic hatchback they drilled a hole to make it look like they sprayed the rear panel. When I went into that hole with my wand it wouldn't even go 1/2 inch into the panel. The didn't drill through the secondary piece of the frame. I was [censored]. It was bone dry when I removed the panel to look at it. A small amount of rust was forming in the bottom corner.

I wasn't a happy customer so I decided to DIY.

I invested in the Fluid film gun and I do my own rust proofing. I go so far as to remove the plastic wheel liners in the front and go to town. No rust proofing place will do that. I've also removed the door panels to make sure everything is coated.

The fluid film's advantage from Krown or Rust check is it doesn't drip. It stays in place. You get underneath the vehicle and spray and you don't get soaked from dripping.

I can buy two can's of FF for under $140 Canadian with taxes or less than $90 USD when I visit the US. That gives protection for a 97 Civic and 2015 Caravan.

Krown & rust check would be charging around $250-300 CDN for both of these vehicles, but you don't know how well they hit every panel. Don't think they get every panel every time, on every vehicle they spray.


WUT?

It costs me $135 to do the Jeep at Rust Check, so you are being ripped off HARD in the 'shwa if that's what they are charging.


That's for two cars. Still a rip off since they missed spots, I wonder how often they don't sray panels, but make it look like they did. Pure profit.


Thanks for the clarification, I thought you meant each, when you did two cars, and I was like WTH???!! LOL

The shop that does it really does make or break it. Our Rust Check shop absolutely drenches the vehicle, whilst the local Krown, which we stopped dealing with due to issues like yours, was quite skimpy on their application and it was obvious that sections were missed. It didn't help that Rust Check was also cheaper for a much better job

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Mostly a scam and in many cases plugged up the body drains which made the rust problem worst. I think they made their money and ran. Classic overpriced dealer add on.


Which undercoatings/rust proofers are you referring too?

I've had more trouble with leafs/seeds and pine needles clogging up my drain holes than I've ever had using a rust proofer.

All that aside, I believe it's up to the individual to maintain their vehicles, including occasionally checking and cleaning out their vehicles drain holes.


Probably the thick tar-like stuff like Zeibart, which I know from experience with a work vehicle that was religiously treated there, doesn't work worth a darn.

 

[irv]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Mostly a scam and in many cases plugged up the body drains which made the rust problem worst. I think they made their money and ran. Classic overpriced dealer add on.


Which undercoatings/rust proofers are you referring too?

I've had more trouble with leafs/seeds and pine needles clogging up my drain holes than I've ever had using a rust proofer.

All that aside, I believe it's up to the individual to maintain their vehicles, including occasionally checking and cleaning out their vehicles drain holes.


Probably the thick tar-like stuff like Zeibart, which I know from experience with a work vehicle that was religiously treated there, doesn't work worth a darn.


My Father had our (mine now) 74 Monte Carlo done using Zeibart undercoating like back in 75 when he purchased the car used. I remember seeing it all over the door jambs and the like and if I am not mistaken there are likely still a few spots of it remaining here and there?

The thing I heard about it, years later, was that moisture would get between it and the panels and actually make rusting worse.

It was the rage back then and may have worked/help for a period of time, but it wasn't log before it was gone/off the market.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Mostly a scam and in many cases plugged up the body drains which made the rust problem worst. I think they made their money and ran. Classic overpriced dealer add on.


Which undercoatings/rust proofers are you referring too?

I've had more trouble with leafs/seeds and pine needles clogging up my drain holes than I've ever had using a rust proofer.

All that aside, I believe it's up to the individual to maintain their vehicles, including occasionally checking and cleaning out their vehicles drain holes.


Probably the thick tar-like stuff like Zeibart, which I know from experience with a work vehicle that was religiously treated there, doesn't work worth a darn.


My Father had our (mine now) 74 Monte Carlo done using Zeibart undercoating like back in 75 when he purchased the car used. I remember seeing it all over the door jambs and the like and if I am not mistaken there are likely still a few spots of it remaining here and there?

The thing I heard about it, years later, was that moisture would get between it and the panels and actually make rusting worse.

It was the rage back then and may have worked/help for a period of time, but it wasn't log before it was gone/off the market.


It is surprisingly still around, probably just really few locations at this point.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Mostly a scam and in many cases plugged up the body drains which made the rust problem worst. I think they made their money and ran. Classic overpriced dealer add on.


Which undercoatings/rust proofers are you referring too?

I've had more trouble with leafs/seeds and pine needles clogging up my drain holes than I've ever had using a rust proofer.

All that aside, I believe it's up to the individual to maintain their vehicles, including occasionally checking and cleaning out their vehicles drain holes.


Probably the thick tar-like stuff like Zeibart, which I know from experience with a work vehicle that was religiously treated there, doesn't work worth a darn.

I have a 30+ year old van treated with it, with zero rust. I think the application of the product is what is most important. They also used something that was a thick honey like brown color, not black tar. Whatever they used worked well.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Mostly a scam and in many cases plugged up the body drains which made the rust problem worst. I think they made their money and ran. Classic overpriced dealer add on.


Which undercoatings/rust proofers are you referring too?

I've had more trouble with leafs/seeds and pine needles clogging up my drain holes than I've ever had using a rust proofer.

All that aside, I believe it's up to the individual to maintain their vehicles, including occasionally checking and cleaning out their vehicles drain holes.


Probably the thick tar-like stuff like Zeibart, which I know from experience with a work vehicle that was religiously treated there, doesn't work worth a darn.

I have a 30+ year old van treated with it, with zero rust. I think the application of the product is what is most important. They also used something that was a thick honey like brown color, not black tar. Whatever they used worked well.


We had a Ford E350 van, 2005, treated with it. Yearly. They use the thick black stuff underneath, the honey like stuff elsewhere. Neither product creeps. I'm guessing we use significantly more road salt than you do? Both rear quarter panels rotted out completely, the hinges were leaking rust, doors creaked...etc. This is a work van. We got it treated once with Krown the year before last, and once with Rust Check, last year, before pulling the plug on it this year because the damage was just too bad. But the significant difference with those two products is you could see them creeping out of the hinges long after the vehicle had been sprayed, they immediately stopped the doors from groaning/creaking and the product visibly creeps out the seams.

We also have a newer van, a 2011 Chevrolet Express done up by Explorer Vans that was treated the same way. Being newer, it didn't get as bad, but you could see the rust forming directly beside the "honey" on the frame rails where they missed a spot, and even underneath the black "undercoating" they applied below. The Krown wetted it and seemed to stop the process, and the Rust Check, which we've now switched to, is doing the same. This is the same van with the horrible wiper squirters I posted about in my rant thread

My first car was a 1974 Olds Cutlass Supreme that belong to my grandmother. It had the Zeibart treatment as well. Rear frame rails at the rear axle rotted out underneath the coating. They looked mint. Until you discovered you could put your finger straight through them.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


We had a Ford E350 van, 2005, treated with it. Yearly. They use the thick black stuff underneath, the honey like stuff elsewhere. Neither product creeps. I'm guessing we use significantly more road salt than you do? Both rear quarter panels rotted out completely, the hinges were leaking rust, doors creaked...etc. This is a work van. We got it treated once with Krown the year before last, and once with Rust Check, last year, before pulling the plug on it this year because the damage was just too bad. But the significant difference with those two products is you could see them creeping out of the hinges long after the vehicle had been sprayed, they immediately stopped the doors from groaning/creaking and the product visibly creeps out the seams.

We also have a newer van, a 2011 Chevrolet Express done up by Explorer Vans that was treated the same way. Being newer, it didn't get as bad, but you could see the rust forming directly beside the "honey" on the frame rails where they missed a spot, and even underneath the black "undercoating" they applied below. The Krown wetted it and seemed to stop the process, and the Rust Check, which we've now switched to, is doing the same. This is the same van with the horrible wiper squirters I posted about in my rant thread

My first car was a 1974 Olds Cutlass Supreme that belong to my grandmother. It had the Zeibart treatment as well. Rear frame rails at the rear axle rotted out underneath the coating. They looked mint. Until you discovered you could put your finger straight through them.


I can't speak to how they salt roads in Canada, here they seem to go crazy with it. Sometimes they salt in anticipation, and we don't get snow. LOL Maybe I got lucky, or maybe that generation of Ford vans used better sheet metal? I'm not sure. The only problem I have is dead paint, I got lazy over the years and waxing effort was spent on the two Jeeps we have, and not the van. It is showing now.

Going forward I used Cortec VpCI-368 on the two Jeeps which imo is a better product than what Ziebart was using. It is self healing and creeps.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Probably the thick tar-like stuff like Zeibart, which I know from experience with a work vehicle that was religiously treated there, doesn't work worth a darn.


I've known a few people who have lost vehicles to Ziebart. That stuff is awful. Plugs up the drain holes.

Oil spray like Krown / Rust Check is much better.

 

[irv]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: irv

Which undercoatings/rust proofers are you referring too?

I've had more trouble with leafs/seeds and pine needles clogging up my drain holes than I've ever had using a rust proofer.

All that aside, I believe it's up to the individual to maintain their vehicles, including occasionally checking and cleaning out their vehicles drain holes.


Probably the thick tar-like stuff like Zeibart, which I know from experience with a work vehicle that was religiously treated there, doesn't work worth a darn.


My Father had our (mine now) 74 Monte Carlo done using Zeibart undercoating like back in 75 when he purchased the car used. I remember seeing it all over the door jambs and the like and if I am not mistaken there are likely still a few spots of it remaining here and there?

The thing I heard about it, years later, was that moisture would get between it and the panels and actually make rusting worse.

It was the rage back then and may have worked/help for a period of time, but it wasn't log before it was gone/off the market.


It is surprisingly still around, probably just really few locations at this point.


That is surprising. I just googled it and seen it still around like you said. Was there a time where it disappeared altogether?

Looks like they are doing more than just undercoating now and are trying to make a comeback?

It's been years and years since I heard of it last.

 

[OVERKILL]

They do wickedly overpriced detailing as well, LOL

Not sure if there was a period in which they disappeared or not TBH. I didn't know they did rustproofing until I got involved in the oversight of the care of our work vehicles that arose out of some concerns from travelling in one.

 

[doitmyself]

Ziebart didn't disappear, but they diversified into other markets, including Rhino Bed Lining. I just saw a commercial for "Tuffy Auto Service Center", so at some point they also got away from the single Tuffy Muffler marketing.

 

[Broo]

My 2005 Echo has been rustproofed yearly since I bought it new, no trace of rust on it.
My wife's 2004 Sienna is rustproofed yearly since we bought it in 2011. Before that, we don't know for sure, but not much rust on this either.
My 2006 Ranger, despite being rustproofed yearly as well since 2010 is slowly decaying. Rust is still minor, but much more advanced than on the Sienna.

All 3 are rustproofed at the same place, all 3 are subjected to the same weather and road salt. The Sienna is the one that sees most mileage in a year, the Ranger the least.

I have no good words for Ford about this.

 

[cjcride]

Bet you have good words for Toyota.

Are you using Krown?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: ZZman
I remember when it was all the rage but now you never hear about it.

Are vehicles almost rust proof now?


If it's the rust proofing I use, (Rust Check & Krown) it has to be applied annually to keep up the warranty on it if it's a new vehicle.



I was going to have my mechanic do rust proofing on my wife's new Sienna (when we first got it, it's a 2015), but when I called the service manager at the Toyota dealership, he said doing any aftermarket rust proofing would void the factory rust proofing warranty...

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: grampi

I was going to have my mechanic do rust proofing on my wife's new Sienna (when we first got it, it's a 2015), but when I called the service manager at the Toyota dealership, he said doing any aftermarket rust proofing would void the factory rust proofing warranty...


If it's a perforation only warranty, which it's almost a 100% guarantee, then it's basically worthless, unless you're willing to drive around in a rusty vehicle untill holes appear in the panels.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: grampi

I was going to have my mechanic do rust proofing on my wife's new Sienna (when we first got it, it's a 2015), but when I called the service manager at the Toyota dealership, he said doing any aftermarket rust proofing would void the factory rust proofing warranty...


If it's a perforation only warranty, which it's almost a 100% guarantee, then it's basically worthless, unless you're willing to drive around in a rusty vehicle untill holes appear in the panels.


That's correct. If you get scratches through the paint or some of the OEM undercoating peels off and surface rust begins, they will not cover that. They will respray the underside and keep that surface rust managed. If you get bubbles from rust coming from the inside (see photo below), that IS perforation and will be covered. If the bottom door seam starts bulging and disintegrating from interior rust, they will cover that.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/deta...int-finish.html

 

[Ben Boyle]

I got my new car I bought on Monday done by Krown today in Michigan.

 

[cjcride]

Originally Posted By: Ben Boyle
I got my new car I bought on Monday done by Krown today in Michigan.
Good stuff. We have had good results with Krown.

 

[tig1]

In 1985 I had a new car rust proofed, and caused it to rust more than ever.