What happened to Fram quality?

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Interesting generalization.
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Buying a Fram filter is like paying more for a Kia (et al) that you know will only go 100K miles and possibly give you mechanical headaches while doing it than for a Honda that you know will easily go 200K with no headaches. I'm generalizing with the example, but you get the idea.

Unfortuntely, several years of recent Honda 4 and 5 speed automatic transmissions, including Acura CL, TL, MDX, Honda Odyssey and Accord have been very troublesome sometimes needing multiple replacements. Hope they have improved.

I do know what you are saying. And I do not buy frams or honda brand frams either.
 
Wow!!! Looks like I opened up a LARGE can of worms. I have learned a lot by reading these posts. I really don't buy the 3 months/3000 miles. I have changed the oil every 3000 miles in my Mercury Sable 24 valve-V6 & it uses a quart of oil every 1200 miles. I have to blame it on the Frams. I stopped using them @ 75000 miles & wish I had stopped sooner.
A lot of knowledge & many different opinions on BITOG. Thanks.
 
I had a post on here awhile back - Fram filters look really bad - especially when they are crooked with globs of glue seeping over the sides? I'd take an STP oil filter anyday because of how it looks!
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''Snip.... One of their part numbers actually contains more filter media than the highly regarded Supertech filter, as evident in this thread:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001207''

That comparison was a real apples to orange one. The Fram with more filter area that the ST was an oversize premium one. On down I posted that an ST 3950 has twice the media of a PH 3950. You need to compare a TG to the same number in a similarly priced filter, not a smaller ST. Fram can't be that bad, but why pay extra for less?

It took me a long time to go with the Wal-Mart house brand, but I will never go back to ?Fram.
 
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See if you can find a Ford truck with a 4.9L inline-6 or Toyota with a 20/22r.

Or a Ford Contour/Mercury Mystique with a 2.5L V6.

They have startup rattle when used with a Fram, and Ford actually issued a TSB recommending the use of their then-new FL-820S filter to stop it (the TSB never specifically blamed any oil filter for the problem, but did say that the FL-820S would eliminate it).

Prior to that TSB, the FL-820S didn't exist. It was the FL-820 and it had no silicone anti-drainback valve, just a nitrile one. The FL-820S box continued to say something like "New silicone valve" for the next few years. I remember looking at the box I just bought and wondering how many years something can exist before it ceases to be "new"....
 
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That comparison was a real apples to orange one. The Fram with more filter area that the ST was an oversize premium one.

Nope. The only two oversized filters he had were the OEM Toyo Roki and the FRAM XG filter.

The FRAM Extra Guard filter was of the "stock" 7317 size and the Supertech filter was of the "stock" 7317 size as well.

The Supertech had 62 sq in. of media, while the FRAM Extra Guard had 102. In addition, the ST 7317 also had the thinnest media of the group, while the FRAM was in the middle.
 
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The FRAM Extra Guard filter was of the "stock" 7317 size and the Supertech filter was of the "stock" 7317 size as well.

Yep ..but is the Fram Extra Guard the lowest offering for Fram in that "stock" size for that application. You could just as easily be comparing a PureOne (or any higher $$ filter) with a $2 filter.

Which one has more features and is bigger?

Ford Contour
the former Soviet Union's equivalent of the Towncar?

Which is better?

Ford Contour
Yugo
 
Never confuse retail price with manufacturing cost.

Which is what people want to do when comparing filters.

Frams manufacturing cost differential ( paper endcaps and all) v Purolator, Wix , Champ made product might be anywhere from equal to, to less than 5 cents difference based on volume of filters produced for standard filters. The same is true no matter which brand one compares. Wix v Purolator. Or Champ v Wix, etc...

What consumers claim is "cheap"..ain't cheap when you build it comparatively.

What you pay is based on what the market will bear.

When you pay .01 cents for a Purolator..doesn't that make that filter "Cheap"? Mail in rebate or not..it stil cost to produce the filter.

As mentioned before Frams --selling price--- includes a whole lot of marketing costs, including their race programs. Wix and Purolator also advertise or sponsor racing, so that is included in their costs. Champ does not advertise anyhwere near the extent of the others, nor sponsor any form of racing/race car.
This is what --you--pay for..
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You're right. I know that one study put some name brand food products at somewhere around 60% in costs for promotion/advertising.

So, our Champ M1's ...probably still cost about the same as the Ecore to produce (less if you take into account the capital acquistion of the tooling)...maybe 10% more (of whatever direct costs there are).

Boy, someone is cleaning up there.
 
The understatement of the day......

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Wow!!! Looks like I opened up a LARGE can of worms

Who would have thought??


Well, just those who read the posts on a board before posting....

Just a little jab........seriously, if you wnt to start a riot, just use the work Fram with ANY other combination of words (it doesn't really matter what they are although it seems to cause more of a stir when mixed with "personal feelings" about a filter. For example, "Look at that crappy Fram! Just crap in a can. How do I know it's crappy, because I don't like the way it looks!! Purolaters, now, those beauties really get me going....GGGRRRRRR").....it works every time......


You could probably start WWIII with a post containing only "Fram?"
 
I was a dyed-in-the-wool FRAM fan for many years...used them exclusively and never had any problems.

However...

That was before joining BITOG and learning that my 3,000-mile/3-month OCI was a myth and with better oil and better filters I could go much longer, save money, help the environment, etc.

Ford says my car can go 5,000 miles between oil and filter changes, but if I use a FRAM filter I can only go 3,000 miles?! And the FRAM costs more than the Motorcraft? Does anyone else see something wrong here?
 
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Originally posted by RF Overlord:

Ford says my car can go 5,000 miles between oil and filter changes, but if I use a FRAM filter I can only go 3,000 miles?! And the FRAM costs more than the Motorcraft? Does anyone else see something wrong here?


...If only those Die-Hard Frammers would just understand that very statement.......
 
Sorry turbochem..... I am just like RF Overlord. I have previously used Frams for years without a problem. I have honestly never owned a car that used any oil until now. I've always been a 3000 mile OCI guy. This 96 Sable of mine (which I bought new) needs a quart every 1200 miles. It runs perfectly other than that.
Yes, I have read previous posts & I know there are many Fram bashers out there, with good reason. I still think something has changed.
I know Honeywell owns Fram, but I don't know if they always have? Just trying to learn...Mike
 
quote:

Originally posted by OriginHacker21:
...........I'd take an STP oil filter anyday because of how it looks!
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Careful there....

Here's an old post of mine comparing three cartridge type filters. Yes, cartridge vs. spin-on is comparing apples to oranges (no pun intended). However, I think it illustrates the point.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001648

I'll post the photos here as I don't think the old links are working anymore.

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From L to R: STP, NAPA Gold, FRAM

I just pulled the STP filter from the canister a few weeks ago. It was collapsed from the spring that maintans pressure against the bottom of the filter. This so far has never happened to the Fram filters in most of the engine's 363k mile life.
 
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Yeah, I'd use SuperTech if they made a filter for my car...

They do, or they did..the local Wal-Mart used to have the ST9018. It was $4.99 .. same price as the equivalent Purolator at Advance. Maybe they dropped it because it wasn't selling at that price.
 
brianl703 - Hmm, then maybe I wasn't dreaming when I thought I saw one for my car at a Wal-Mart in Wisconsin...
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Wal-Marts out here in California are pretty sad compared to what I saw in the MidWest... Next time I'm out there I'll look for one - thanks for the info! But, you're probably right bout the price - $4.99 is kind of expensive.
 
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