What Factors Are Swaying EV Adoption in the U.S.?

[MNgopher]

I love having my truck that goes 600+ mile on a tank of gas. That being said, if I ask myself how many times I actually use it that way (600+ miles in one session) in a year, the answer is actually 3-4 days per year.

So when I see it must have a 400 mile range, I ask how often is that a requirement that that be done? Our family owns a cabin 265 miles away, one way... and I do that drive literally 10 times per year... And it is virtually never straight through. Theres a stop in there somewhere - to stretch, use a restroom, pickup supplies, eat, etc...

I firmly believe that if many people actually did a close analysis of their driving habits, they would be surprised at how much of it can be done via an EV... My baseline for that is a family member with a PHEV. They can go literally months without needing to buy gas. It gets plugged in at night in the garage. That's it... I will grant they don't use it for long cross country trips.

So while I like knowing that my truck can go for seemingly forever on one tank of gas, I can also see that the vast majority of what I do with it could be done with an EV... And that doesn't bother me.

Perhaps having an EV and an ICE is the solution - and where I believe I am headed sooner rather than later.

 

[JHZR2]

People only buy cars every so often. Only so many people will go and buy a model S plaid because of its performance. The ev bug will saturate, and numbers will drop. Even a card carrying greenie will realize that it’s resource intensive to build cars. There are a variety of populations that want an ev due to the niche, the green factor, etc. those too will subside.

But at the same time, more folks will shop EVs as they need cars. And as the EVs get better they’ll get shipped harder and more seriously by more folks.

People are keeping cars longer. Despite the wacky market of late, that has been aided further by the pandemic and lots of working remote, reduction in trips and vacations, etc. But more and more will rebound into the car market and that will be interesting. I expect we will see a stronger showing for EVs overall in many regions where commute length and logistics allow.

 

[Badgerstate]

What Factors Are Swaying EV Adoption in the U.S.? - Lubes'N'Greases

The transition to electric vehicles is imminent, but the speed of adoption remains debatable. Explore the factors that may influence how quickly EVs will permeate the car parc.

www.lubesngreases.com

Id say part of it is cost, part of it is advancing technology and part of it that EVs are becoming a more viable and practical option. FWIW, there was also a time when people said they would never give up their horse too and we see how that went. LOL

 

[JHZR2]

I love having my truck that goes 600+ mile on a tank of gas. That being said, if I ask myself how many times I actually use it that way (600+ miles in one session) in a year, the answer is actually 3-4 days per year.

So when I see it must have a 400 mile range, I ask how often is that a requirement that that be done? Our family owns a cabin 265 miles away, one way... and I do that drive literally 10 times per year... And it is virtually never straight through. Theres a stop in there somewhere - to stretch, use a restroom, pickup supplies, eat, etc...

I firmly believe that if many people actually did a close analysis of their driving habits, they would be surprised at how much of it can be done via an EV... My baseline for that is a family member with a PHEV. They can go literally months without needing to buy gas. It gets plugged in at night in the garage. That's it... I will grant they don't use it for long cross country trips.

So while I like knowing that my truck can go for seemingly forever on one tank of gas, I can also see that the vast majority of what I do with it could be done with an EV... And that doesn't bother me.

Perhaps having an EV and an ICE is the solution - and where I believe I am headed sooner rather than later.

It’s true, even on longer trips we tend to stop a lot. Very seldom do we drive straight through one tank of fuel.

The thing more pressing is when you don’t want to waste time charging on those stops… or can’t find a charger, or take shorter trips.

I routinely take a 150-ish mile each way trip for work. A few more miles when there… That’s a trip I routinely do make without stopping. The scenario is then: drive, meet, (potentially stay over with car parked in a random parking lot), meet, drive home.

A 600 mile tank on a hybrid means I don’t even need to think or care about fuel levels. Small tank on a less efficient vehicle means it needs to be thought about but I can get some gas anywhere.

An EV means I need to ensure a full charge before I leave, and/or at least one charge on my trip.

Or, but an EV with 400+ mile range to have some buffer, which is $$$.

While for my routine commute of 8 or so miles, and for errands, an EV is a great concept, it’s not compelling in terms of logistics and convenience, even for my relatively benign 150 mile trip in some of the most densely populated areas of the country. If I can’t be compelled for an EV for that, it’s utility drops for anything else.

 

[Shel_B]

When I see the major brand service stations start installing chargers at all their stations then I will sense that the adoption rate is accelerating enough.

Shell, which currently operates a network of nearly 8,000 EV charging points, has converted an existing petrol station in Fulham, central London, to an electric vehicle charging hub that features ten 175 kW DC fast-charging stations, built by Australian manufacturer Tritium. The hub will offer “a comfortable seating area for waiting EV drivers,” along with a Costa Coffee store and a Little Waitrose & Partners shop.

Shell Converts Gas Station Into EV Charging Hub

European oil companies are getting into the EV charging business. We'll see how that works out, but Shell’s new “EV hub” in London certainly looks impressive.

insideevs.com

 

[Shel_B]

It’s true, even on longer trips we tend to stop a lot. Very seldom do we drive straight through one tank of fuel.

The thing more pressing is when you don’t want to waste time charging on those stops… or can’t find a charger, or take shorter trips.
[...]
An EV means I need to ensure a full charge before I leave, and/or at least one charge on my trip.

Or, but an EV with 400+ mile range to have some buffer, which is $$$.

Prototype Battery Powers Tesla Model S For 752 Miles On One Charge

Prototype Battery Powers Tesla Model S For 752 Miles On One Charge

Battery startup ONE's proof-of-concept battery powered a Tesla Model for 752 miles across Michigan in mid-December without recharging.

insideevs.com

 

[OVERKILL]

Prototype Battery Powers Tesla Model S For 752 Miles On One Charge

Prototype Battery Powers Tesla Model S For 752 Miles On One Charge

Battery startup ONE's proof-of-concept battery powered a Tesla Model for 752 miles across Michigan in mid-December without recharging.

insideevs.com

This was discussed in another thread:

Tesla Model S Goes 752 Miles with a Prototype Battery from a Michigan Startup

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38668912/750-mile-ev-battery-michigan-startup-our-next-energy/ "This 'proof of concept' was meant to show that very long-range, environmentally sustainable battery packs can exist—and ONE, Inc., is about to start building one."

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[MNgopher]

It’s true, even on longer trips we tend to stop a lot. Very seldom do we drive straight through one tank of fuel.

The thing more pressing is when you don’t want to waste time charging on those stops… or can’t find a charger, or take shorter trips.

I routinely take a 150-ish mile each way trip for work. A few more miles when there… That’s a trip I routinely do make without stopping. The scenario is then: drive, meet, (potentially stay over with car parked in a random parking lot), meet, drive home.

A 600 mile tank on a hybrid means I don’t even need to think or care about fuel levels. Small tank on a less efficient vehicle means it needs to be thought about but I can get some gas anywhere.

An EV means I need to ensure a full charge before I leave, and/or at least one charge on my trip.

Or, but an EV with 400+ mile range to have some buffer, which is $$$.

While for my routine commute of 8 or so miles, and for errands, an EV is a great concept, it’s not compelling in terms of logistics and convenience, even for my relatively benign 150 mile trip in some of the most densely populated areas of the country. If I can’t be compelled for an EV for that, it’s utility drops for anything else.

So as devils advocate, what if in the drive, meet, (potentially stay over with car parked in a random parking lot), meet, drive home scenario, the random parking lot happens to have a charger in it.

One can play an million scenarios, and its easy to come up with ones where the EV won't work. That does not discount the portfolio of scenarios where it actually will... as my family with the PHEV (and I understand that it isn't a perfect comparison) has come to learn.

 

[JHZR2]

Prototype Battery Powers Tesla Model S For 752 Miles On One Charge

Prototype Battery Powers Tesla Model S For 752 Miles On One Charge

Battery startup ONE's proof-of-concept battery powered a Tesla Model for 752 miles across Michigan in mid-December without recharging.

insideevs.com

Prototype. In a model s that is unaffordable to most of the population. So what? Interesting for battery geeks. Not much use for folks right now.

So as devils advocate, what if in the drive, meet, (potentially stay over with car parked in a random parking lot), meet, drive home scenario, the random parking lot happens to have a charger in it.

One can play an million scenarios, and its easy to come up with ones where the EV won't work. That does not discount the portfolio of scenarios where it actually will... as my family with the PHEV (and I understand that it isn't a perfect comparison) has come to learn.

Sure. Maybe.

Is there a time limit on the charger, so I have to leave what I’m doing to move my car? Does it mean that I need to park in spots I usually wouldn’t (I only park in end spots away from others), exposing my car to careless people?

You mention phev. To me that’s ideal. You can run on ev mode for the typical errands and short commute, but have the gas tank and long range for the longer runs.

 

[E365]

Range has been “solved” for my needs - I just need the range to get cheaper and to charge faster.

350 mile range at 70 MPH is 5 hours. No way I’d ever drive over 5 hours without stopping for a break. I generally stop between 3 and 4 hours on long road trips.

 

[y_p_w]

Thanks to the media, fear is a factor. Fear of burning alive, fear of a burned-down house being at the top of the list.
This doesn't affect all households, as some people don't travel, and other people may plan to retain their ICE cars as a backup, but the inability to jump in and drive to far-away destinations without planning a long pit stop will sway folks away. But this will eventually be fixed.

I've seen long lines for gas when there was an impending storm coming in. The possibility of having your own charging system at home might alleviate that. I've also heard of Tesla extending the range of their vehicles via temporary software updates if that was needed during an emergency like a hurricane. I get that it seems that software being the difference between medium and long range is a bit dishonest, but there have been a lot of things (like electronics) where there's basically one design, but firmware or strapped value programming enables/sets various "trim levels". Tesla also gave free access to their charging network around the time of several storms.

Hurricane Bonus: Tesla Unlocks More Range, OnStar Adds Services

The more you suffer, the more you save. Tesla, GM, and other automakers unlock services during Hurricane Dorian. Lapsed OnStar customers are current customers again (as long as the wind blows).

www.extremetech.com

 

[y_p_w]

Is there a time limit on the charger, so I have to leave what I’m doing to move my car? Does it mean that I need to park in spots I usually wouldn’t (I only park in end spots away from others), exposing my car to careless people?

As far as I know, most chargers don't have time limits per se. They charge until they stop, and then they have a grace period to come (often with a notification by email/app/etc.) and remove it before there's a penalty, with the rationale that they don't want to maximize the use of these for actual charging. Now some might just unplug and not move, but then that sets up the possibility of getting towed because there will be posted signs.

 

[MNgopher]

Prototype. In a model s that is unaffordable to most of the population. So what? Interesting for battery geeks. Not much use for folks right now.


Sure. Maybe.

Is there a time limit on the charger, so I have to leave what I’m doing to move my car? Does it mean that I need to park in spots I usually wouldn’t (I only park in end spots away from others), exposing my car to careless people?

You mention phev. To me that’s ideal. You can run on ev mode for the typical errands and short commute, but have the gas tank and long range for the longer runs.

I can give you the example of the public charging station at my employer. Its on an end. Spaces for two cars to charge. No time limits. Pre-pandemic, we had two "regular" users of the station. Does that mean that's how it will always be? No.

Again, we can come up with a million reasons why it won't work. Conversely, one could come with a similar number of reasons why it will.

I don't disagree with the PHEV assessment. I do know my employer is looking at the Lightning - hard. We run hundreds of trucks - all that come home to mama every night and that don't tow (but do carry some payload depending on mission). Average 50-75 miles of use a day. Will be interesting!

 

[y_p_w]

Gasoline sales in most places require a human to oversee the process for fire/ environmental reasons. Electricity can be made safe enough to dispense through a Chargepoint vending machine.

I just saw a gas station where I was just planning on going inside to maybe buy a snack, but then I saw the sign said that it would only be attended between 6AM and 2PM. There was pay at the pump. I've also seen some gas stations that were exclusively pay at the pump, like one in Yosemite National Park. I wasn't sure if they had any requirement for human attendants because of safety reasons, but I was thinking that there are some requirements for self-serve gas stations to provide employees to pump gas for disabled customers.

 

[JHZR2]

As far as I know, most chargers don't have time limits per se. They charge until they stop, and then they have a grace period to come (often with a notification by email/app/etc.) and remove it before there's a penalty, with the rationale that they don't want to maximize the use of these for actual charging. Now some might just unplug and not move, but then that sets up the possibility of getting towed because there will be posted signs.

Right. So if I drove 150 mikes, get somewhere late, park, now I need to shuffle a car either late at night or in lieu of the meetings and work I went there for. It’s just another thing.

Im really not trying to ding EVs that much. It’s just that hev and phev have compelling range and convenience… PHEV IMO really is where it’s at. When EVs are routinely capable of 400-450 mikes, then my point is moot for my use.

 

[y_p_w]

This.

The issue is like fuel mileage the range varies depending on several factors. 400 miles range on a flat Texas road will be less in January Boston traffic.

The strange thing is that a lot of the things we normally think of kind of go out the window with EVs. One is that most EVs actually have overall better range in city driving than freeway driving, even with stop and go. One reason is the regenerative braking, but also that slower speeds are generally more efficient. The ideal fuel economy for an ICE vehicle is probably 30-35 MPH where you barely need to stop. ICE engines aren't really that efficient when accelerating compared to EVs. And going up and down or stop and go may not be that bad because of the aforementioned regenerative braking.

 

[y_p_w]

Right. So if I drove 150 mikes, get somewhere late, park, now I need to shuffle a car either late at night or in lieu of the meetings and work I went there for. It’s just another thing.

Im really not trying to ding EVs that much. It’s just that hev and phev have compelling range and convenience… PHEV IMO really is where it’s at. When EVs are routinely capable of 400-450 mikes, then my point is moot for my use.

Sorry - I worked on that for a while, edited it, and the proofreading was way off. But there's usually a grace period to get off because they WANT turnover for the next customer and to maximize the utility of the charger. I heard that even with Tesla vehicles that still have lifetime free charging, it requires an account that will charge for staying too long and hogging up the charger when it's done and there's a lot of people using them. The rate supposedly kicks in (50 cents/minute in the US) when at least half are in use, and doubles when all chargers are being used. However, it's a ready made excuse to leave, just like someone has a ready made excuse that they might be parked at a meter and they didn't put enough time on it. And especially when there are more people with EVs, they will generally understand what others are going through. Still - I'm kind of surprised that Tesla superchargers have only a 5 minute grace period. However, they tend to fully charge within minutes. If someone left home with a fully charged car and wants to top it off after driving 15 miles, it's only going to take a few minutes. It might even make sense to just wait until it's fully charged, and then move it before going into an office, shopping, etc.

Supercharger Idle Fee

We designed the Supercharger network to enable a seamless, enjoyable road trip experience. Therefore, we understand that it can be frustrating to arrive at a station only to discover fully charged Teslas occupying all the spots. To create a better experience for all owners, we’re introducing a...

www.tesla.com

But yeah - it's really more like parking in front of a gas pump longer than needed to pump the gas and complete a transaction. Now I've found that there was no other parking and maybe I park in front of a pump to go and buy a soda at the convenience store, but if I just left it there for an hour I'm pretty sure the attendant is going to call for a tow. This is just something that people have gotten used to with EVs. They're not really parking spaces but fueling spaces. However, it's got to be way different with Tesla that has the industry's highest charging current vs their competitors that might take hours to charge a car.

And idle fees seem to vary a lot even with the same networks. Chargepoint varies a lot because often the charging fees are paid for by the host site, like at some Target stores that I've seen. The charging may even be free for 1-2 hours, but the idle fee may be set by the host site that's paying for it.

 

[MattPersman]

I don’t think the battery swap thing will ever happen they are waaaaay too heavy

Heck many women and elderly folks probably can’t comfortably lift a normal 12 volt car battery up and in a vehicle

How many can probably not even jump start a car let alone unhook a high voltage connector comfortably and reconnect

People can’t even undo and redo wrangler door wire harnesses when they take their doors off we get several cases of bent pins and broken connectors every year

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Imagine the rent charge if that was the case.

Not that much. No different than when pools/tennis courts/ laundry rooms became common amenities at apartment complexes.

 

[4WD]

I don’t think the battery swap thing will ever happen they are waaaaay too heavy

Heck many women and elderly folks probably can’t comfortably lift a normal 12 volt car battery up and in a vehicle

How many can probably not even jump start a car let alone unhook a high voltage connector comfortably and reconnect

People can’t even undo and redo wrangler door wire harnesses when they take their doors off we get several cases of bent pins and broken connectors every year

It’s a drive through process - looks like very expensive equipment meant to replace an aged battery - there will surely be less of these than stand alone chargers …