What exactly is a "Living wage"?

Well it's not something you pay a teen living at home. :LOL:

Maybe they think that if you're "alive", you should be paid a middle class wage?
 
I love listening to crabs in a bucket say what other people deserve. You are all bringing each other down. Saying someone doesn't deserve $20 is pointless. The dollar amount is arbitrary. $20 is a different amount of power than it was 20 years ago. A cheeseburger is $20.

My nephew pays money to work at McDonald's. He operates at about a $150 loss to work there after expenses but he's doing it because he can't get anything else at his age while in school. That is not a living wage.

A bunch of absolute perverts sitting around thinking about what other people deserve, and saying others deserve to live in poverty. So pathetic.

If at any point you feel inclined to do basic math. Multiply 20 by 20-30 and compare it to the cost of rent and groceries in your area. Then realize they get zero health insurance or benefits so they go into debt if they get sick.
Something is wrong here. Why is he paying to work at MsDonalds?

Plus, he is in school. What kind of wage does he require to live?
Nothing is wrong here.

A kid's time is valuable. He can take more classes, AP classes, so he can go to college with an early start and save tuitions. He can do extra curricular activities to get himself ahead of other candidates applying to a college and get into a better one, or a scholarship, or learn a new skill to improve his future earning potential. He can do side jobs on computer programming, he can learn to invest, etc.

In some cases he can help his parents' work if they are self employed to make his parents money. 40 hours of $14/hr land you 28k full time. If he can finish school 1 year early he could make at least 28k 1 year early, unless your goal is to work in McD after college then you probably shouldn't go to college and should start vocational school instead.

28k is not enough to rent your own room in the basement + food + gas in a 30 year old corolla + insurance to drive the corolla these days. As I said before, only rich people can afford to do full time job in McD, or let their kid work there, or a housewife work there part time between pickup and drop off kids. It is much cheaper for a housewife to watch her own kid at home than to work in McD and send her kids to daycare, it is much cheaper for teens to take more AP classes in school to finish college earlier. Most of my roommates back in the days from poor families just took AP classes, summer schools (apartment rent is per year so rent is sunk cost), and finish with 3.5 years instead of 4. They didn't waste money on exotic stuff. The rich kids work in the school cafeteria for money to mod their cars, graduate college 5 years, etc.

Come to think of it, gig economy like Doordash is ideal if a housewife want to watch her own kid while driving. The kid would be in the backseat with the parent driving around all day, on flexible schedule.
 
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Nothing is wrong here.

A kid's time is valuable. He can take more classes, AP classes, so he can go to college with an early start and save tuitions. He can do extra curricular activities to get himself ahead of other candidates applying to a college and get into a better one, or a scholarship, or learn a new skill to improve his future earning potential. He can do side jobs on computer programming, he can learn to invest, etc.

In some cases he can help his parents' work if they are self employed to make his parents money. 40 hours of $14/hr land you 28k full time. If he can finish school 1 year early he could make at least 28k 1 year early, unless your goal is to work in McD after college then you probably shouldn't go to college and should start vocational school instead.

28k is not enough to rent your own room in the basement + food + gas in a 30 year old corolla + insurance to drive the corolla these days. As I said before, only rich people can afford to do full time job in McD, or let their kid work there, or a housewife work there part time between pickup and drop off kids. It is much cheaper for a housewife to watch her own kid at home than to work in McD and send her kids to daycare, it is much cheaper for teens to take more AP classes in school to finish college earlier. Most of my roommates back in the days from poor families just took AP classes, summer schools (apartment rent is per year so rent is sunk cost), and finish with 3.5 years instead of 4. They didn't waste money on exotic stuff. The rich kids work in the school cafeteria for money to mod their cars, graduate college 5 years, etc.


I either missed the point or the explanation is so convoluted that I cannot figure it out.

I didn’t go to college so you will have to pardon this dumb person.
 
I either missed the point or the explanation is so convoluted that I cannot figure it out.

I didn’t go to college so you will have to pardon this dumb person.
Sorry, maybe I should do a different example:

Say you are not going to college. You would be working toward a final career, and probably start doing trades with some mentors in construction or auto repair, you can start working with those people before you are done with highschool instead of McD. Maybe you still get paid McD wage but you are at least ahead of the game learning early. You probably should go to vocational school and get your license early as an electrician? a plumber? a general contractor?

So why would you work in McD then? Shouldn't you learn and get your professional experience in your final career earlier instead?
 
One in six American children go to bed hungry every night. That would be one metric to measure what living wage is (ability to feed one's family
False, government gives Americans free food if they are unable to buy it = EBT cards
Not one American child in this country starves, not one, If they are it’s their parents stealing their food.
The parents even get free cell phones for goodness sake’s.
I supported my own children when they were growing up and out of my paycheck the government took money to buy children food who’s parents could not afford it.
What else can the human race do for somebody?
Sink or swim baby, That’s life
 
Sorry, maybe I should do a different example:

Say you are not going to college. You would be working toward a final career, and probably start doing trades with some mentors in construction or auto repair, you can start working with those people before you are done with highschool instead of McD. Maybe you still get paid McD wage but you are at least ahead of the game learning early. You probably should go to vocational school and get your license early as an electrician? a plumber? a general contractor?

So why would you work in McD then?


It depends on the situation per person and also the location. Bremerton WA is not Siillycon Valley. That is one big difference.
 
Apologies; I menat no disrespect @PandaBear
I just loved you reminding me of my journey and just how lucky I am to be in Silicon Valley.
I am not sure any place else, even in America, could have offered me the solution that was laid at my feet here.
Silicon Valley is in America and only exists because of America.
But I do get your meaning and know it wasn’t meant any other way.
 
In NYC a police officer or firefighter starts at $45K a year....hardly a liveable wage in a city where even a cockroach infested apartment can go for over $3K a month. On top of that the 'powers that be' have decided to make them (PO's) the bad guys because it works for their 'divide and conquer' policies. America, sadly, is becoming a place where raising a family is nearly impossible unless you are rich or on 'public assistance'...
 
A lot of older people (earlier Boomers and those who are even older) still seem clueless about the cost of housing and university today, partly because they paid for that stuff when that was all a lot cheaper. Their houses were paid off decades ago. They think youngsters can work a minimum-wage job, still pay for everything, and save.
Your view of the world is the exact opposite of what you posted.
Young Americans have never had it in more easy in the history of mankind. The ones to complain are soft, spoiled, immature and clueless on how to work and manage money.
 
In NYC a police officer or firefighter starts at $45K a year....hardly a liveable wage in a city where even a cockroach infested apartment can go for over $3K a month. On top of that the 'powers that be' have decided to make them (PO's) the bad guys because it works for their 'divide and conquer' policies. America, sadly, is becoming a place where raising a family is nearly impossible unless you are rich or on 'public assistance'...
If this is true why do they become police officers?
I’ve known many New York City police officers and everyone of them had a house in the suburbs. They can retire in 20 years as well, no private sector offers that.
Back to my question if what you say was true they could do something else besides be a police officer.
Everyone has a choice, it’s called freedom
 
One that provides food, clothing, and shelter! The basics. It’s up to each individual to settle for this station in life, or flourish. One can either get the credit or the blame! There are few and rare exceptions, but many today should stop blaming everybody else for their own personal failures!
 
If this is true why do they become police officers?
I’ve known many New York City police officers and everyone of them had a house in the suburbs. They can retire in 20 years as well, no private sector offers that.
Back to my question if what you say was true they could do something else besides be a police officer.
Everyone has a choice, it’s called freedom
The stretch out to '6 years to top pay' only happened in the last few years...before that they reached top pay in 3 years and houses in the 'suburbs' were within middle class reach. You should realize that 'opportunities' for middle class' Americans aren't what they used to be....but our 'elites' are getting richer every day....usually by selling out Americans for profit....Also, when I was a kid growing up in the Bronx...we were taught to respect the police, our elders etc....unlike today. Was it that way in Long Island?
PS: I guess you know that Nassau County cops are among the highest paid in the country and they don't deal with the same things NYPD does....
 
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The stretch out to '6 years to top pay' only happened in the last few years...before that they reached top pay in 3 years and houses in the 'suburbs' were within middle class reach. You should realize that 'opportunities' for middle class' Americans aren't what they used to be....but our 'elites' are getting richer every day....usually by selling out Americans for profit....
This happens in every country. Economy of scale of survival vs having extra resources to invest (in oneself or in financial portfolio, or influence others) will always lead to better outcome for the better off folks. Nothing unique to US, or China, or Europe, or Russia, or Japan. This is why no empire last forever and civil wars happen every several hundred years in most nations on earth.

As I said earlier, the only thing the less well off folks can do is to have fewer children, and focus on their successes, and waiting for the opportunities to catch up and surpass the well off folks' children if they make mistakes (wasting family fortunes away, overdose, etc), and based on probabilities some will.
 
The stretch out to '6 years to top pay' only happened in the last few years...before that they reached top pay in 3 years and houses in the 'suburbs' were within middle class reach. You should realize that 'opportunities' for middle class' Americans aren't what they used to be....but our 'elites' are getting richer every day....usually by selling out Americans for profit....Also, when I was a kid growing up in the Bronx...we were taught to respect the police, our elders etc....unlike today. Was it that way in Long Island?
"Teaching to respect" never works. If propaganda doesn't work in the soviet dictatorship you can bet it wouldn't work in the land of the free called US.

Everyone in the world love their own police after a crisis and everyone in the world hate their own police after a screw up. It is just human nature and it is their managements' jobs to damage control on a regular basis. Nothing new or different really.
 
"Teaching to respect" never works. If propaganda doesn't work in the soviet dictatorship you can bet it wouldn't work in the land of the free called US.

Everyone in the world love their own police after a crisis and everyone in the world hate their own police after a screw up. It is just human nature and it is their managements' jobs to damage control on a regular basis. Nothing new or different really.
Somewhat true...teaching to respect often works.....as my father used to say to us (5 sons) "If the police bring you home....don't come home"....and home was a 2 bedroom apartment in a 5 story tenement....5 boys in one bedroom....we weren't exactly 'living large'....but we weren't full of GRIEVANCE like so many today...
 
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That movie theater job is not intended to be a job you do "for a living" so therefore....the wage is what it is...like many lower paid hourly jobs...really more of a high school/college kid type of thing to do. The idea of a living wage to me is that at some point, we/society needs low-skill services...cleaning, maintenance, grounds keeping etc....we all can't be professionals, tradesman, etc. so at what point do we say out of one side of our mouths "we need/value this service" but also out of the other side "f u poor pathetic scum/get a better job"? That's the idea at least of a "living wage" (to me). Tough convo for sure b/c obviously if it was easy to sort out it would be.
 
That movie theater job is not intended to be a job you do "for a living" so therefore....the wage is what it is...like many lower paid hourly jobs...really more of a high school/college kid type of thing to do. The idea of a living wage to me is that at some point, we/society needs low-skill services...cleaning, maintenance, grounds keeping etc....we all can't be professionals, tradesman, etc. so at what point do we say out of one side of our mouths "we need/value this service" but also out of the other side "f u poor pathetic scum/get a better job"? That's the idea at least of a "living wage" (to me). Tough convo for sure b/c obviously if it was easy to sort out it would be.
We "don't deserve" any service or any pay, we negotiate as a society on what works and what doesn't.

You see some trains today have no ticket checkers in rural stations? You see some garbage trucks with robot arms pickup up trash cans and flipping it over into the truck? You see general stores being replaced by supermarket with self checkout? You see "drive through" in fast food? How about online hotel and airline ticket reservations?

Nobody deserve any service if the service won't pay for someone enough to do it (living or non living wage). They will get automated away or the service would be extinct because nobody want to pay for it. The only thing we can do is pick our career wisely and don't waste our lives doing jobs that will be automated before we retire if we want a better pay. It is the responsibilities of businesses and customers to figure out whether they want to pay for it or whether they want to automate it.
 
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