What exactly is a "Living wage"?

[wpod]

100% spot on!! I was born in 1969. Growing up in the 70s and 80s, I had friends who's fathers worked in factories, retail sales, etc. Some without even a high school diploma. Mothers didn't work, were stay at home moms. They had nice homes, country club memberships, kids went to private schools (we were all attending the same catholic school), and each parent had a current model car. Yep, life was different!

1971 **** Nixon took the U.S. off the gold standard to pay for The Vietnam conflict . **** and Henry Kissinger opened trade with China and the presidents and politicians allowed offshoring of industry. NAFTA and Gatt?? Some one has to pay for the low cost stuff we buy. I never should have moved out on my own ! What is a living wage? A living wage it what our Tv tells us . To me a living wage would allow ne to purchase and afford to operate a Huey Helicopter !

 

[Andrew1972]

Yeah, but could they live on their own making $14-$15 an hour? I highly doubt it. And it is fine, but they are still making above minimum wage proving that the market works without mandatory intervention.

The higher minimum wages are set, all it does is reward the lazy ones and makes things more expensive for everyone. And in a lot of cases these jobs get eliminated by automation. Think cashiers as an example.
So what’s the point of having a high minimum wage, when there is no jobs?

The issue is there are too many jobs in our area so wages spiked.

Adults who used to take $15-$20/hr jobs are now in the $25-$40/hr jobs at that point they still don’t have enough workers locally. My neighbor with 1 year college on Covid year off took a job at pharma making $30/hr no experience cleaning equipment but documentation was complex.

 

[wpod]

The issue is there are too many jobs in our area so wages spiked.

Adults who used to take $15-$20/hr jobs are now in the $25-$40/hr jobs at that point they still don’t have enough workers locally. My neighbor with 1 year college on Covid year off took a job at pharma making $30/hr no experience cleaning equipment but documentation was complex.

$30.00 to start !!! Good deal.

 

[tbm5690]

Oh, in case you think raising minimum wage is the solution: it probably isn't.

There are always a way for humanity to automate stuff away and as long as someone is making money there will always be incentive to automate those jobs away and not pay them even minimum wage. If you ever went to McDonald's lately you would have seen how many things they don't even cook in the kitchen anymore, just microwave frozen factory stuff and now they don't even have more than 1 cashier at a time, you are ordering with an app or a kiosk, parking at the spot waiting for them to take it out to you.

When was the last time you talk to a travel agent to book a hotel or a plane ticket?

When was the last time you talk to a shoe salesman?

The only solution to this problem is to focus on having fewer children and prepare them to the top, so they don't get automated before the other kids from families with too many kids and not enough money. The only child from a lower middle class will have a better chance of survival than the 2 children from the same kind of family.

Focus on having fewer children? If people quit spending money on stupid crap they don't need they can support more children. Not all families...there are some that legitimately struggle based on income but we've swung the pendulum too far the other way over the last few decades where now it's seen as impossible to live on one income and raise multiple kids, when in reality people just aren't willing to sacrifice. It's all about choices.

 

[JHZR2]

You may not really know any one at the poverty level or homeless level. I happen to volunteer at a homeless shelter and a donated pre paid sim used on a smartphone including iPhone is generally a positive direction in getting people out of situation. I consider a smartphone with prepaid plan($10/month or free phones sim) and ability to use Wi-Fi a basic of modern job seeking and keeping employment.

Actually, we do help with folks at the poverty level, and it’s something we decided we wanted to instill into our kids from very early on. I also supported someone helping on a project of mine, paying them for over six months, and still somewhat to this day because we developed a friendship. I’m acutely aware of their issues, and, of their IT needs, their government issue phone, their other sim that was on and off depending upon situation…

And as I said, the iPhone is an analog for frivolity. In prior financial threads, particularly when smart/iPhones were newer, cost more, were tied to pricy data plans (our two phones on an unlimited ATT plan are like $113/mo)… that’s the sort of thing that a poverty level or “minimum wage” earner can’t really afford, and imo shouldn’t be assumed for a living wage.

I could have as easily said cable tv (what I typically used in the past), and could be as well anything else that costs more than it needs to for enjoyment or entertainment.

Words matter. Analog and frivolity are key…

 

[JHZR2]

Focus on having fewer children? If people quit spending money on stupid crap they don't need they can support more children. Not all families...there are some that legitimately struggle based on income but we've swung the pendulum too far the other way over the last few decades where now it's seen as impossible to live on one income and raise multiple kids, when in reality people just aren't willing to sacrifice. It's all about choices.

I totally agree. There are lifestyle choices and situational decisions to be made. I think some choices made aren’t really the best for kids and affect them in negative ways.

That said. I don’t think that kids and daycare should be included in the living wage argument.

 

[wwillson]

Like the title says, what is a "Living wage".

Had a recent discussion with a parent and their child is a movie ticket taker at a theater. The parent is mad because pay is just above minimum wage and not a "Living wage". I didn't ask because this person has a persecution complex and didn't want to hear it as to why they were thinking that then I also pondered what exactly is a living wage. I can't see a person saying "Your movie is the second door on the right" getting $20 an hour but that's just me.

There is almost no barrier to entry to become a ticket taker at a movie theater door. The ticket taker requires little to no education, no experience, no certifications, and no prior knowledge. Low barrier to entry jobs demand almost no qualifications and demand only low pay.

If someone wants to make more than entry level wages, then I suggest they become qualified for a higher barrier to entry job. Get some post high school education, go into the military, work hard, continue learning on the job, etc.

If you really want to make the big bucks, then choose a high barrier to entry job, like be a surgeon or airline pilot. It will take you sometimes decades to get there, but that's what it takes to earn a top paying job.

 

[alarmguy]

...

If someone wants to make more than entry level wages, then I suggest they become qualified for a higher barrier to entry job. Get some post high school education, go into the military, work hard, continue learning on the job, etc.

...

Perfectly said

 

[PimTac]

Focus on having fewer children? If people quit spending money on stupid crap they don't need they can support more children. Not all families...there are some that legitimately struggle based on income but we've swung the pendulum too far the other way over the last few decades where now it's seen as impossible to live on one income and raise multiple kids, when in reality people just aren't willing to sacrifice. It's all about choices.

Exactly. Wants and needs are two separate things.

 

[PimTac]

If you really want to make the big bucks, then choose a high barrier to entry job, like be a surgeon or airline pilot. It will take you sometimes decades to get there, but that's what it takes to earn a top paying job.

Excellent point. Many expect to graduate from college and go right into a big money position. Those are far and few between. Most successful people worked for many years to get to that point.

 

[Andrew1972]

Actually, we do help with folks at the poverty level, and it’s something we decided we wanted to instill into our kids from very early on. I also supported someone helping on a project of mine, paying them for over six months, and still somewhat to this day because we developed a friendship. I’m acutely aware of their issues, and, of their IT needs, their government issue phone, their other sim that was on and off depending upon situation…

And as I said, the iPhone is an analog for frivolity. In prior financial threads, particularly when smart/iPhones were newer, cost more, were tied to pricy data plans (our two phones on an unlimited ATT plan are like $113/mo)… that’s the sort of thing that a poverty level or “minimum wage” earner can’t really afford, and imo shouldn’t be assumed for a living wage.

I could have as easily said cable tv (what I typically used in the past), and could be as well anything else that costs more than it needs to for enjoyment or entertainment.

Words matter. Analog and frivolity are key…

Using an older iPhone 6s or 7 or SE happens with prepaid sims. I think you are blindly associating an iPhone 14 to expensive data plan. They also use $50-100 smartphones running Android.

 

[DwightFrye]

A Living Wage is whatever someone thinks they should be making for doing a job that is really worth about $5 per hour.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I think the argument would be that the $200k computer programmer could go and take tickets, but the ticket taker probably can’t program.

The “living wage” discussion probably goes in a bad way fast. But I’m a “you don’t deserve anything” person, so a living wage verges more like a safe dormatory and fresh vegetarian diet, no iPhone, and a bus pass, then it does anything more…

Sure, programming is a skill and an art. It takes both.
My arguement is the ticket taker is a far harder job.

I have to say I admire your post, "but the ticket taker probably can’t program." Ya never know. I believe there is huge untapped talent out there.
You made your point without degrading the work. I will take a lesson.

 

[JHZR2]

Using an older iPhone 6s or 7 or SE happens with prepaid sims. I think you are blindly associating an iPhone 14 to expensive data plan. They also use $50-100 smartphones running Android.

I can’t be more clear about frivolity… I said it how many times now? Not sure why it isn’t registering.

Granted, I see people paying EBT at Walmart and messing with their high end phones…. You know because of the color behind the camera on the iPhone at least…

If I said “cable tv and alcohol” would it register better? If so then make the mental note and keep moving…

 

[Andrew1972]

I can’t be more clear about frivolity… I said it how many times now? Not sure why it isn’t registering.

Granted, I see people paying EBT at Walmart and messing with their high end phones…. You know because of the color behind the camera on the iPhone at least…

If I said “cable tv and alcohol” would it register better? If so then make the mental note and keep moving…

You are bucketing an entire group together of low income and yes that is frustrating high end phones. Cable and alcohol are not required however internet access is again for any opportunity to move out of poverty and approach a living wage. I am comfortable using an “older” iPhone 10? but have luxury of easy access to a Mac with high speed internet. Very Low income typically lack a computer so use a smartphone become their go to.

I may be way off but how are people in low income expected to communicate and do life , job communication, banking and etc without internet access. It’s a barrier to me.

 

[bullwinkle]

A smartphone is generally a necessity to apply for almost any job, the days of stopping by and filling out a job application are pretty much over. It is very possible to use public WiFi and an older (but still capable) smartphone with a basic (or even NO data) plan for $15 or less a month. “Living wage” is a very elastic number, from living in the woods in a tent (which we have a few homeless that do that in my neighborhood), to a decent apartment, beater car, basic healthcare-all of which have SKYROCKETED in price in the last year…

 

[RDY4WAR]

A "living wage" (in political and socioeconomic terms) is an endlessly moving target with zero chances of ever being achievable in a free society. A true living wage is what you make of it. I know a family that lives on yr and are comfortable and happy, living within their means. I know another family that makes >$90k/yr and constantly complain about how they can't make ends meet. Some people think "living" means having a roof over your head, some food on the table, and clean drinking water. Others think it means a new Iphone and Caribbean vacation every year.

 

[skyactiv]

All I know is that we have became divided in about every facet of life. We should rename the human race the Ferengi race.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I remember in the late 80s, everyone's parents were getting divorced, moms were having to go back to work, families were falling apart. Seemed like things went to hell in a hand basket.

 

[Wolf359]

Yeah, but could they live on their own making $14-$15 an hour? I highly doubt it. And it is fine, but they are still making above minimum wage proving that the market works without mandatory intervention.

The higher minimum wages are set, all it does is reward the lazy ones and makes things more expensive for everyone. And in a lot of cases these jobs get eliminated by automation. Think cashiers as an example.
So what’s the point of having a high minimum wage, when there is no jobs?

Basically your theories are incorrect and not supported by facts. States with higher minimum wage don't have higher unemployment. Right now we have pretty low unemployment so the reason cashiers have been replaced by automation is because they can't find the employees to do those jobs.

Higher minimum wages also helps those that don't know how to negotiate for higher wages. I've run into several people who don't know how to negotiate for higher wages and just take whatever is offered. I always negotiated my pay before taking a job.