What could have caused this?

Joined
Apr 15, 2017
Messages
2,988
Location
Napa, CA.
This is a situation where buying the parts and giving them to shop was a terrible idea. Sure you didn't pay a couple hundred in shop markup but if they had picked and bought the parts this issue would be on the original shop that did the timing chain. But now it's complicated. I agree that crap parts and perhaps an incompetent shop and now a Ford dealer service department that doesn't want to do any real diag is 100% at fault here.
 

wtd

Thread starter
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
3,340
Location
southwest Mo.
Originally Posted by dogememe
This is a situation where buying the parts and giving them to shop was a terrible idea. Sure you didn't pay a couple hundred in shop markup but if they had picked and bought the parts this issue would be on the original shop that did the timing chain. But now it's complicated. I agree that crap parts and perhaps an incompetent shop and now a Ford dealer service department that doesn't want to do any real diag is 100% at fault here.
This shop typically has you buy the parts and he puts them in. It's a small 2 or 3 man shop. I told the truck owner that he might want to take the truck somewhere else because I didn't think that they would be familiar with that engine which turned out to be true since they had to source the correct tool to take off the harmonic balancer. The problem around here is you don't know who to trust to work on anything and who has the knowledge to fix these newer vehicles. I think the dealer quoted him $3800 to do the repair. I think he spent about $1000 in parts and $500 in labor at the shop that did the work. Like I said, the truck owner is a tight wad even though he has plenty of money to fix this stuff right. Maybe this will be a lesson for him.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2017
Messages
2,988
Location
Napa, CA.
Originally Posted by wtd
Originally Posted by dogememe
This is a situation where buying the parts and giving them to shop was a terrible idea. Sure you didn't pay a couple hundred in shop markup but if they had picked and bought the parts this issue would be on the original shop that did the timing chain. But now it's complicated. I agree that crap parts and perhaps an incompetent shop and now a Ford dealer service department that doesn't want to do any real diag is 100% at fault here.
This shop typically has you buy the parts and he puts them in. It's a small 2 or 3 man shop. I told the truck owner that he might want to take the truck somewhere else because I didn't think that they would be familiar with that engine which turned out to be true since they had to source the correct tool to take off the harmonic balancer. The problem around here is you don't know who to trust to work on anything and who has the knowledge to fix these newer vehicles. I think the dealer quoted him $3800 to do the repair. I think he spent about $1000 in parts and $500 in labor at the shop that did the work. Like I said, the truck owner is a tight wad even though he has plenty of money to fix this stuff right. Maybe this will be a lesson for him.
Sounds like a shade tree mechanic not a real shop. Maybe time for this person to start taking their stuff to a deal shop here on out.
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
17,228
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted by dogememe
Sounds like a shade tree mechanic not a real shop. Maybe time for this person to start taking their stuff to a deal shop here on out.
Even taking it to a Mustang performance type shop would have worked. Mustang owners with the Coyote engines are always either swapping cams or changing the oil pump drive gears to a billet unit. All the work needed on the Mustang is the same as a F-150 for those jobs since all the timing set has to come off.
 

wtd

Thread starter
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
3,340
Location
southwest Mo.
Well, the main reason I made this post was to see if you guys thought that the dealer was trying to blow smoke up his rear and if there were any other possible causes of what his problems were. We can all agree that he should have used better parts for the timing chains and related components as well as finding a more competent shop to do the work. I want to thank everyone who contributed and the information has given us some hope that his issues can be fixed without having to have a new engine.
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
17,228
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
The dealer wanted to put a new engine in because that would have been the easiest fix. They didn't want to risk putting all the time into re-timing only to find out possible bent valves.
 

wtd

Thread starter
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
3,340
Location
southwest Mo.
Well, here is one for you. I guess the owner changed the oil in the truck before he went out on the road for work and right before the truck coded while on the road. He always uses 5W-20 Motorcraft blend and because the store was out, he bought a different brand and one jug was 0W-20 and the other 5W-20. The ex Ford mechanic that may be working on the truck when told what oil and viscosity was used, said they need to change the oil first and drive it for awhile because that engine only works correctly with Motorcraft. I've never heard such a thing an am calling BS. The owner doesn't really believe it but his grandfather who is a die hard Ford does so they are changing the oil with 5W-20 Motorcraft. I don't believe for a minute that changing the oil is going to solve this issue.
 

wtd

Thread starter
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
3,340
Location
southwest Mo.
The grandfather changed the oil and now he says the truck runs worse, it's idling rougher. I tried to tell him before we bought the oil and he changed it that I highly doubted an oil change was going to make any difference.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
7,189
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted by Trav
Are the Melling still USA made? I used to us Cloyes and Sealed Power as well but many part # are now made in China.
For Fords.....The Melling kits consist of OE parts with the FoMoCo part# ground off. I did a '03 2V 4.6L just last week & the Melling kit even had OE Morse chains. For GM 2.4L & 3.6L....I use OE from the dealer, Didn't like the Melling kits & sent them back. I use German made IWIS chains with dealer acquired OE sprockets on LSx engines.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JC1
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
29,237
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Its a shame you don't only need to know how to repair them but need to be somewhat of a parts source guru as well. IWIS chains are excellent and OE on some Euro models.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JC1
Joined
Apr 15, 2017
Messages
2,988
Location
Napa, CA.
Originally Posted by DuckRyder
IMO, needs to stop running it and change the timing components before something more drastic happens (assuming it hasn't already).
this. stop messing with stupid "mechanics" that think a quart of 0w-20 is going to cause it to run wrong.
 

wtd

Thread starter
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
3,340
Location
southwest Mo.
They took the truck down to the mechanic today and he is going to tear into it so we will see what he finds.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
1,731
Location
stl
Originally Posted by wtd
They took the truck down to the mechanic today and he is going to tear into it so we will see what he finds.
Anything new?
 

wtd

Thread starter
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
3,340
Location
southwest Mo.
Originally Posted by wtd
They took the truck down to the mechanic today and he is going to tear into it so we will see what he finds.
Anything new?
Finally an update. The former Ford Mechanic that worked on the truck and who he took it to had to wait for his shop to be finished and for some equipment to be delivered. Covid made things take a lot longer than they should have.

He finally got the truck back last week and the only thing wrong with it was one of the timing sensors went bad and some one time use bolt inside the front part of the engine backed out. I never could get from the owner which bolt this actually was but it had to do with the timing somehow. I guess the previous shop had re-used this bolt when they did the original repairs.

So instead of spending $9,000 on a new engine that the dealer wanted to charge, it only cost him $1,000. The owner said the truck runs great and the engine is quiet so luckily so far it seems that no permanent damage was done.
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
12,928
Location
OH
Yes thanks for the update. He should prob do 5k oil changes from now on with an older, high mile engine like this. Esp with cheaper timing chains in it. If it were mine I’d use MC 5w30.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wtd
Top