What am I reading?! (CR 2011)

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Well its a bit late since he already owns the car, so who cares?

Most people don't because I see a lot of Chevy Cruze's running around.


I see even more people driving around in Hondas, Kias and Hyundais all smug and blissfully ignorant of the sad state of their automotive affairs

.


I drove my 95 Civic problem free for 225,000 miles and then just got sick of it. No problems, honestly everything just worked. I enjoyed my ignorant bliss. Some really nice domestic and Korean branded stuff out there but not convinced of longevity.

 

[Cujet]

Truedelta dot com is a great source for real time, reliability information. I urge new car owners to sign up and participate.

They have 50 some odd Cruise's in the Truedelta program and so far, it's looking good. Which is not unexpected for a new car.

The pattern is a common one, where during the first few years a car has relatively few repairs or "shop visits". Each subsequent year of age results in more and more frequent repairs.

I can only guess that CR is basing this on past performance of the brand. Which, I don't find to be in any way poor, but they do.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I see even more people driving around in Hondas, Kias and Hyundais all smug and blissfully ignorant of the sad state of their automotive affairs

.

I drove my 95 Civic problem free for 225,000 miles and then just got sick of it. No problems, honestly everything just worked. I enjoyed my ignorant bliss. Some really nice domestic and Korean branded stuff out there but not convinced of longevity.

And there's people who have gotten 200-300k miles of low repairs and maintenance and trouble free miles out of their Domestics.

There's people who have had say their Honda in the shop for 3 timing belts and tensioner and water pump, a couple of valve adjustments, maybe brake noise or an exhaust system or a clutch, and the car is rustier than average and the A/C doesnt.

But if you hear them or CR tell it, you'd think you'd never have to put a penny into a Honda or Asian make. It's all reasonable "maintenance" and no matter how much they spend on maintenance and repairs it just HAD to be less and more minor than what a Domestic would've required. Meanwhile a GM model has a leaky gasket costing no more than a timing belt job and it's unreliable "junk".

My point isn't that Hondas or whatever else isn't reliable, but that there is a confirmation bias and self-fulfilling prophecy element and lack of facts and objectivity.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Truedelta dot com is a great source for real time, reliability information. I urge new car owners to sign up and participate.

They have 50 some odd Cruise's in the Truedelta program and so far, it's looking good. Which is not unexpected for a new car.

The pattern is a common one, where during the first few years a car has relatively few repairs or "shop visits". Each subsequent year of age results in more and more frequent repairs.

I can only guess that CR is basing this on past performance of the brand. Which, I don't find to be in any way poor, but they do.

But what gets me is they seem much more willing to give Hyundai and Kia (and maybe Ford) a pass and the benefit of the doubt. They seem to have some what of a pro-Asian/anti-GM bias regardless of its origin.

 

[Norm Olt]

CR = "Do you want to SUPERSIZE! your fries with that oil change, Sir?"

 

[PeteTheFarmer]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Truedelta dot com is a great source for real time, reliability information.
They don't verify ownership, though. I hear that's important.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Truedelta dot com is a greatanother source for real time, reliability information. I urge new car owners to sign up and participate.



Consumer Reports is simply another reference too. I would definitely at least look a bit deeper if a potential vehicle fell into this list:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magaz...d_cars_to_avoid

btw my wife's car(Legacy turbo) falls into that list for well known reasons.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I owned a vehicle that was on that list. And I can say without any uncertainty that it was the worst ownership experience I've ever had.

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
But what gets me is they seem much more willing to give Hyundai and Kia (and maybe Ford) a pass and the benefit of the doubt. They seem to have some what of a pro-Asian/anti-GM bias regardless of its origin.


Well, maybe after all that bean counting they been doing over the years is showing a lacklustre performance for your beloved GM. If that is not the case, then maybe the "Hyundai and Kia (and maybe Ford)" Bias you claim they have is actually because they Expect those cars to do better based on their past history's.

I don't think think they are any different than people on this board. A good example is all the GM and Hyundai haters:

A. You hate GM, because of the garbage they put out over the years, so naturally it's gonna take more to trust and accept them, regardless of quality.

B. You hate Hyundai because of the Excel. So naturally it's gonna take more to trust and accept them, regardless of quality.

No matter what vehicle it is, there will always be some kind of Bias, either from Consumer reports type items, or Forums, etc. I think the best thing to do is objectively look at Every piece of information you can get on a vehicle from every source before judgement is made (sans a personal experience with certain brand, of course).

 

[mechanicx]

I don't completely disagree. All I'm saying is I don't believe GM vehicles are/were as unreliable and that Ford, Hyundai, and various Japanese makes are/were as reliable and trouble free as portrayed. And also the media as whole and not just CR seem to have an anti-GM bias and pro-Hyundai bias. This bias seems to have roots beyond expected realibility or product bean counting.

I expect better from CR when they claim such impartiality, or really from any media with influence. But I will say part of it might be due to their own subscibers' reporting, and there are a lot of worse automotive publication out there.

Also there's a lot more to a car than just reliability.

 

[PZR2874]

^Exactly

And to add, I think they have taken the "fun factor" out of almost every car out there.

 

[ltslimjim]

People today as so fake, what is impartiality to a partial world society?

It's about the best one liners and sounding/looking good. Popularity contest at its best and the sad part if people aren't happy or content as a result..?

Enter the corrupted CR. lol Unfortunately an unbiased programmed computer isn't auto-printing with precision of a surgeon, instead you've got people...yeah, I said it. lol

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't completely disagree. All I'm saying is I don't believe GM vehicles are/were as unreliable and that Ford, Hyundai, and various Japanese makes are/were as reliable and trouble free as portrayed. And also the media as whole and not just CR seem to have an anti-GM bias and pro-Hyundai bias. This bias seems to have roots beyond expected realibility or product bean counting.

I expect better from CR when they claim such impartiality, or really from any media with influence. But I will say part of it might be due to their own subscibers' reporting, and there are a lot of worse automotive publication out there.

Also there's a lot more to a car than just reliability.



Perhaps, however keep in mind that Hyundai, Ford, and those "various Japanese makes" didn't go bankrupt over the stuff they were putting out. There may be "alot more to a car than reliability" as you say, but it seems to most folks around the USA that reliability is a big picture. After all, what good is your pretty, fun, brand new car if you can't even rely on it to get you from A to B?

Like I said earlier, get Several sources worth of information. If those several all say pretty much the same things about a vehicle, chances are, it's probably correct.

 

[CBR.worm]

Everybody sure latched on when CR said the new Civic was not desirable. The only Asian mfg that is always highly recommended is Toyota/Lexus. Every trouble point that CR has listed for all of my vehicles has been experienced by me. It seems like every new car should be reliable for at least a couple years.