Well the cost thing only plays on a limited scale. For instance, I hauled GM and Ford parts to assembly plants for many years. GM uses the same fuel line components in a non flex fuel vehicle as they do in the flex fuel varieties. The cost saving for the more expensive components is not having multiple parts varieties in inventory. Use a one size fits all philosophy and save over the long run and eliminate issues of having the wrong components in a vehicle. Every other auto manufacturer can do the same. Ford does this as well. There is no appreciable reason for all auto makers to go with fuel system components that will easily deal with higher ethanol blends. It's an economy of scale thing.
Well.... we lost 89 octane locally!
- Thread starter SumpChump
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Originally Posted By: SumpChump
Seems they all are going rid of 89. In that corp.
The engine a 2AZ-FE 2.4 is a known oil burner due to small/coked scavenger ring drain holes. So they get carboned up and ping. One of Toyotas little booboo's.
I have not heard of any ping issue with the 2AZ-FE, but I guess if it is burning enough oil, it could cause it.
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
To the poster that stated he shouldn't be using E10 in an 02 F150, go back and read your owners manual. E10 fuels have been in use in many areas of the country going back to the early 90s. My F150s of that vintage (97-03) allowed E10 and ran 200000 miles on it with no issues.
As to why don't automakers just make everything able to handle E30, it's all about cost. Even pennies add up over hundreds of thousands of units.. More to the point though us the EPA stating E15 is safe to use in all 2001 and newer vehicles. Those older systems weren't designed for it. Anything made since the EPA made its decision should be able to handle E15 though. Doesn't mean I'll use it either.
Nowhere in my 2002 F150 owners manual does it mention Ethanol or e-10 (it does specifically mention not to use methanol, which I know is a totally different thing).
I never said that it said I shouldn't, I said it was not designed for it, and it was not. Is there going to be any mechanical failure problems from e-10 use, probably not.
Regardless, I don't like the mileage hit I get from e-10 (around 10% in all the vehicles I drove when I had access to e-0, not an option for me except when I travel to OK City).
Seems they all are going rid of 89. In that corp.
The engine a 2AZ-FE 2.4 is a known oil burner due to small/coked scavenger ring drain holes. So they get carboned up and ping. One of Toyotas little booboo's.
I have not heard of any ping issue with the 2AZ-FE, but I guess if it is burning enough oil, it could cause it.
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
To the poster that stated he shouldn't be using E10 in an 02 F150, go back and read your owners manual. E10 fuels have been in use in many areas of the country going back to the early 90s. My F150s of that vintage (97-03) allowed E10 and ran 200000 miles on it with no issues.
As to why don't automakers just make everything able to handle E30, it's all about cost. Even pennies add up over hundreds of thousands of units.. More to the point though us the EPA stating E15 is safe to use in all 2001 and newer vehicles. Those older systems weren't designed for it. Anything made since the EPA made its decision should be able to handle E15 though. Doesn't mean I'll use it either.
Nowhere in my 2002 F150 owners manual does it mention Ethanol or e-10 (it does specifically mention not to use methanol, which I know is a totally different thing).
I never said that it said I shouldn't, I said it was not designed for it, and it was not. Is there going to be any mechanical failure problems from e-10 use, probably not.
Regardless, I don't like the mileage hit I get from e-10 (around 10% in all the vehicles I drove when I had access to e-0, not an option for me except when I travel to OK City).
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: Chris142
most places are now .50 to .75 a swipe.
Using a debit card or is it a California thing? Never heard of swipe fees unless you had some [censored] debit card or some pay as you go refillable credit card.
I just ran across this for the first time when I went to pay my mechanic a few weeks ago, she said if I used a credit card it would add 6%. Good thing I still carry my debit card. She said it was because of all the credit cards that offer cash back/rewards, whether this is true or not I have no idea. I also don't know if this would be considered a swipe fee like you guys are talking about.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
most places are now .50 to .75 a swipe.
Using a debit card or is it a California thing? Never heard of swipe fees unless you had some [censored] debit card or some pay as you go refillable credit card.
I just ran across this for the first time when I went to pay my mechanic a few weeks ago, she said if I used a credit card it would add 6%. Good thing I still carry my debit card. She said it was because of all the credit cards that offer cash back/rewards, whether this is true or not I have no idea. I also don't know if this would be considered a swipe fee like you guys are talking about.
Hard to believe that one could think a 2002 model year vehicle isn't designed for e10.
Hint: it is.
E10 fuel has been standard stuff going on 20+ years in many parts of the country. Rest assured your 02 was designed with it mind.
Hint: it is.
E10 fuel has been standard stuff going on 20+ years in many parts of the country. Rest assured your 02 was designed with it mind.
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
I just ran across this for the first time when I went to pay my mechanic a few weeks ago, she said if I used a credit card it would add 6%. Good thing I still carry my debit card. She said it was because of all the credit cards that offer cash back/rewards, whether this is true or not I have no idea. I also don't know if this would be considered a swipe fee like you guys are talking about.
I would contact your credit card company you paid with and report this. All the major credit card companies do charge around 1.5% to 4% credit card processing at the retailer side and is suppose to be rolled into the normal cost of services and not as an added percentage for using for just using a credit card.
It looks to me your mechanic made not only the normal credit card fees back on their end, but added a few percentage points to pad their wallet.
I just ran across this for the first time when I went to pay my mechanic a few weeks ago, she said if I used a credit card it would add 6%. Good thing I still carry my debit card. She said it was because of all the credit cards that offer cash back/rewards, whether this is true or not I have no idea. I also don't know if this would be considered a swipe fee like you guys are talking about.
I would contact your credit card company you paid with and report this. All the major credit card companies do charge around 1.5% to 4% credit card processing at the retailer side and is suppose to be rolled into the normal cost of services and not as an added percentage for using for just using a credit card.
It looks to me your mechanic made not only the normal credit card fees back on their end, but added a few percentage points to pad their wallet.
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
I just ran across this for the first time when I went to pay my mechanic a few weeks ago, she said if I used a credit card it would add 6%. Good thing I still carry my debit card. She said it was because of all the credit cards that offer cash back/rewards, whether this is true or not I have no idea. I also don't know if this would be considered a swipe fee like you guys are talking about.
I would contact your credit card company you paid with and report this. All the major credit card companies do charge around 1.5% to 4% credit card processing at the retailer side and is suppose to be rolled into the normal cost of services and not as an added percentage for using for just using a credit card.
It looks to me your mechanic made not only the normal credit card fees back on their end, but added a few percentage points to pad their wallet.
Yup. They can charge less for cash, but can't charge more for credit, that is why many gas stations have a lower price for cash.
I know, same thing, but that is the way the credit card companies write their rules.
There are exceptions, but regular retail sales are not one of them.
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
I just ran across this for the first time when I went to pay my mechanic a few weeks ago, she said if I used a credit card it would add 6%. Good thing I still carry my debit card. She said it was because of all the credit cards that offer cash back/rewards, whether this is true or not I have no idea. I also don't know if this would be considered a swipe fee like you guys are talking about.
I would contact your credit card company you paid with and report this. All the major credit card companies do charge around 1.5% to 4% credit card processing at the retailer side and is suppose to be rolled into the normal cost of services and not as an added percentage for using for just using a credit card.
It looks to me your mechanic made not only the normal credit card fees back on their end, but added a few percentage points to pad their wallet.
Yup. They can charge less for cash, but can't charge more for credit, that is why many gas stations have a lower price for cash.
I know, same thing, but that is the way the credit card companies write their rules.
There are exceptions, but regular retail sales are not one of them.
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Hard to believe that one could think a 2002 model year vehicle isn't designed for e10.
Hint: it is.
E10 fuel has been standard stuff going on 20+ years in many parts of the country. Rest assured your 02 was designed with it mind.
At least. In the Midwest, over 40 years of E10 at the pumps. To listen to some folks, ethanol wasn't around till the last couple years.
Hard to believe that one could think a 2002 model year vehicle isn't designed for e10.
Hint: it is.
E10 fuel has been standard stuff going on 20+ years in many parts of the country. Rest assured your 02 was designed with it mind.
At least. In the Midwest, over 40 years of E10 at the pumps. To listen to some folks, ethanol wasn't around till the last couple years.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Hard to believe that one could think a 2002 model year vehicle isn't designed for e10.
Hint: it is.
E10 fuel has been standard stuff going on 20+ years in many parts of the country. Rest assured your 02 was designed with it mind.
At least. In the Midwest, over 40 years of E10 at the pumps. To listen to some folks, ethanol wasn't around till the last couple years.
I remember running across this a while back, I'm surprised I found it but it shows corn gas being sold in 1933 in Lincoln. I wonder where they got it since in the next link it says the first ethanol plant in the US was built in 1940 by the Army in Omaha.
http://www.blog-nebraskahistory.org/2012/07/gasohol-the-first-time-around/
Some interesting info, most of you have probably seen similar so this is for any one who hasn't I guess. I found it interesting.
http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_fuel_history.html
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Hard to believe that one could think a 2002 model year vehicle isn't designed for e10.
Hint: it is.
E10 fuel has been standard stuff going on 20+ years in many parts of the country. Rest assured your 02 was designed with it mind.
At least. In the Midwest, over 40 years of E10 at the pumps. To listen to some folks, ethanol wasn't around till the last couple years.
I remember running across this a while back, I'm surprised I found it but it shows corn gas being sold in 1933 in Lincoln. I wonder where they got it since in the next link it says the first ethanol plant in the US was built in 1940 by the Army in Omaha.
http://www.blog-nebraskahistory.org/2012/07/gasohol-the-first-time-around/
Some interesting info, most of you have probably seen similar so this is for any one who hasn't I guess. I found it interesting.
http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_fuel_history.html
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Even Henry Ford's first cars used ethanol. That was what he intended from the beginning. While your reference is the first "corn" ethanol plant, there was already ethanol being produced from other sources, primarily beet and cane sugar.
There are a lot of stations in Michigan that have 87/89/93 octane. I do a 50/50 mix of 87/93, and pay the same as I would for straight 89. The Camaro runs with less knock on the mix.
That situation in Wi with the 88 octane E15 is just nasty. 3 cents per gallon less for one octane point higher? Sounds too good to be true, and it is probably about a wash on the money saved to the fuel economy lost, and possibly a loser if the E15 leads to long-term damage to your fuel system. I would run the E15 88 with 50% E0 91 if I had the choice and be happy with the 7.5% blend. I bet most people don't go for the 88 octane if they realize it's E15.
That situation in Wi with the 88 octane E15 is just nasty. 3 cents per gallon less for one octane point higher? Sounds too good to be true, and it is probably about a wash on the money saved to the fuel economy lost, and possibly a loser if the E15 leads to long-term damage to your fuel system. I would run the E15 88 with 50% E0 91 if I had the choice and be happy with the 7.5% blend. I bet most people don't go for the 88 octane if they realize it's E15.
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Originally Posted By: MNgopher
To the poster that stated he shouldn't be using E10 in an 02 F150, go back and read your owners manual. E10 fuels have been in use in many areas of the country going back to the early 90s. My F150s of that vintage (97-03) allowed E10 and ran 200000 miles on it with no issues.
As to why don't automakers just make everything able to handle E30, it's all about cost. Even pennies add up over hundreds of thousands of units.. More to the point though us the EPA stating E15 is safe to use in all 2001 and newer vehicles. Those older systems weren't designed for it. Anything made since the EPA made its decision should be able to handle E15 though. Doesn't mean I'll use it either.
E10 gas has been used in Illinois since the early 80's. I had a '79 Mustang with the 4 cylinder that would ping like crazy on E0 but ran great on E10.
Most premium use to be E10 92 octane but now it's 93 octane FWIW.
To the poster that stated he shouldn't be using E10 in an 02 F150, go back and read your owners manual. E10 fuels have been in use in many areas of the country going back to the early 90s. My F150s of that vintage (97-03) allowed E10 and ran 200000 miles on it with no issues.
As to why don't automakers just make everything able to handle E30, it's all about cost. Even pennies add up over hundreds of thousands of units.. More to the point though us the EPA stating E15 is safe to use in all 2001 and newer vehicles. Those older systems weren't designed for it. Anything made since the EPA made its decision should be able to handle E15 though. Doesn't mean I'll use it either.
E10 gas has been used in Illinois since the early 80's. I had a '79 Mustang with the 4 cylinder that would ping like crazy on E0 but ran great on E10.
Most premium use to be E10 92 octane but now it's 93 octane FWIW.
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