being retired i just stay home.
Weight in the truck bed for winter
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Originally Posted By: morris
being retired i just stay home.
Right on, morris. And if I do have to go out I drive real slow.
being retired i just stay home.
Right on, morris. And if I do have to go out I drive real slow.
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Every time it snows, I shovel a lot of snow into the back of my truck. Great traction.
It also unloads itself as it melts.
Win/win
Every time it snows, I shovel a lot of snow into the back of my truck. Great traction.
It also unloads itself as it melts.
Win/win
First year we had the F350 (didn't buy snow tires for it yet), my father found out that limited slip in an empty 1 ton truck can get fun on hills.
Gave no warning, either. It'd just snap around.
Gave no warning, either. It'd just snap around.
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Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
I use an empty, clean, plastic 55gal drum laying on it's side at the tailgate strapped down for security. Fill with water and leave it in until warm weather then use the water on the lawn, granted i do live in the SE though. I am only lifting an empty drum into and out of the truck. This works for me but i also don't need my truck on a daily basis as i am sure it kills the already no so good fuel mileage of my one ton truck. I estimate it weighs around 330-335 lbs. and have not had any problems with stability or traction. The drum on it's side with the large bung up and small one down makes for easy filling and emptying and leaves room for expansion as the water will freeze solid.
Water is 8 lbs gallon. So its heavier than 330-335 if filled and a real 55 gal.
With the drum on it's side you will lose a bit of capacity due to the water level will not rise past the bottom of the large bung. My estimation is you lose about 10gal of capacity.
Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
I use an empty, clean, plastic 55gal drum laying on it's side at the tailgate strapped down for security. Fill with water and leave it in until warm weather then use the water on the lawn, granted i do live in the SE though. I am only lifting an empty drum into and out of the truck. This works for me but i also don't need my truck on a daily basis as i am sure it kills the already no so good fuel mileage of my one ton truck. I estimate it weighs around 330-335 lbs. and have not had any problems with stability or traction. The drum on it's side with the large bung up and small one down makes for easy filling and emptying and leaves room for expansion as the water will freeze solid.
Water is 8 lbs gallon. So its heavier than 330-335 if filled and a real 55 gal.
With the drum on it's side you will lose a bit of capacity due to the water level will not rise past the bottom of the large bung. My estimation is you lose about 10gal of capacity.
I don't like the as far back as possible, as another poster said,
it unloads the front as well as loading the back...while increasing the polar moment of inertia...think Porsche 911.
Makes more sense (to me) to keep the weight inside the wheelbase.
that being said, I've never done nor experienced it, and when we have snow/ice here, the roads are closed down pretty quickly...if it needs plowing, it's done with a grader.
As to the weights, Holden Special Vehicles built the Maloo ute
http://www.hsv.com.au/news/2006/fastest_ute.html
and installed mounting points for steel weights in the tray for when the drivers wanted to drive in a "spirited" manner.
Don't know where the points were in the tray, or the size of the weights.
As to my aversion of polar moments of inertia, and unloading axles, when I was in high school, and we were studying complex levers, I was doing yardwork with my father.
We dug about a half box trailer of wet clay, that he insisted go as far back in the trailer as was possible. I favoured over the trailer axle, but Dad won. Tow vehicle was a Holden Torana, 1 tonne, 6 cyl with about half the engine hanging over the front axle, and a fairly light tail.
Driving on dry bitumen, with the rear already light, and unloaded by the rear loaded trailer, as he rounded a curve, the two extreme masses at the ends fought the back tyres and forded the car into a sort of reverse jack-knife, rear of the car sliding INTO the centre of curvature.
it unloads the front as well as loading the back...while increasing the polar moment of inertia...think Porsche 911.
Makes more sense (to me) to keep the weight inside the wheelbase.
that being said, I've never done nor experienced it, and when we have snow/ice here, the roads are closed down pretty quickly...if it needs plowing, it's done with a grader.
As to the weights, Holden Special Vehicles built the Maloo ute
http://www.hsv.com.au/news/2006/fastest_ute.html
and installed mounting points for steel weights in the tray for when the drivers wanted to drive in a "spirited" manner.
Don't know where the points were in the tray, or the size of the weights.
As to my aversion of polar moments of inertia, and unloading axles, when I was in high school, and we were studying complex levers, I was doing yardwork with my father.
We dug about a half box trailer of wet clay, that he insisted go as far back in the trailer as was possible. I favoured over the trailer axle, but Dad won. Tow vehicle was a Holden Torana, 1 tonne, 6 cyl with about half the engine hanging over the front axle, and a fairly light tail.
Driving on dry bitumen, with the rear already light, and unloaded by the rear loaded trailer, as he rounded a curve, the two extreme masses at the ends fought the back tyres and forded the car into a sort of reverse jack-knife, rear of the car sliding INTO the centre of curvature.
Can't really follow the 'increasing' or 'decreasing' the PMOI???
But I do agree that moving it around can yield spectacular changes in handling!
But I do agree that moving it around can yield spectacular changes in handling!
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I don't like the as far back as possible, as another poster said,
it unloads the front as well as loading the back...while increasing the polar moment of inertia...think Porsche 911.
Makes more sense (to me) to keep the weight inside the wheelbase.
that being said, I've never done nor experienced it, and when we have snow/ice here, the roads are closed down pretty quickly...if it needs plowing, it's done with a grader.
As to the weights, Holden Special Vehicles built the Maloo ute
http://www.hsv.com.au/news/2006/fastest_ute.html
and installed mounting points for steel weights in the tray for when the drivers wanted to drive in a "spirited" manner.
Don't know where the points were in the tray, or the size of the weights.
As to my aversion of polar moments of inertia, and unloading axles, when I was in high school, and we were studying complex levers, I was doing yardwork with my father.
We dug about a half box trailer of wet clay, that he insisted go as far back in the trailer as was possible. I favoured over the trailer axle, but Dad won. Tow vehicle was a Holden Torana, 1 tonne, 6 cyl with about half the engine hanging over the front axle, and a fairly light tail.
Driving on dry bitumen, with the rear already light, and unloaded by the rear loaded trailer, as he rounded a curve, the two extreme masses at the ends fought the back tyres and forded the car into a sort of reverse jack-knife, rear of the car sliding INTO the centre of curvature.
Steve - your anecdote describes a completely different situation. A vehicle/trailer combination is a system...and you created a negatively stable system by having the center of mass (load) BEHIND the center of pressure (wheels)....anyone who knows anything about trailering knows that you want 10 - 20% of the total weight on the tongue - that places center of mass ahead and makes for a stable system.
We're talking about a single vehicle...
The Polar Moment of Intertia is relatively unimportant in a pick-up truck....and given the amount of weight being discussed here (250 - 500lbs) it is a very minor change in polar moment anyway.
The key to the OP's dilemma is the weight distribution for driving on snow - the close he can get to 50/50, the better he will be able to go...without load, a pick-up is around 65/35...with 35% of the weight on the driving wheels...not good. After all - the amount of forward force you can generate is the Normal force over the driving axle (% of weight distribution times total vehicle weight) times mu - and that forward force has to accelerate the entire vehicle mass.
So, by placing the added weight to the rear, you get the most change in weight distribution (as one respondent put it, you unweight the front - exactly! and that's desireable...) for the increase in weight of the vehicle. Placing the same weight in front of the rear axle increases the vehicle weight by the same amount, but puts some of that new load on the front axle, so it offers the LEAST improvement in weight distribution...and the LEAST increase in traction.
I don't like the as far back as possible, as another poster said,
it unloads the front as well as loading the back...while increasing the polar moment of inertia...think Porsche 911.
Makes more sense (to me) to keep the weight inside the wheelbase.
that being said, I've never done nor experienced it, and when we have snow/ice here, the roads are closed down pretty quickly...if it needs plowing, it's done with a grader.
As to the weights, Holden Special Vehicles built the Maloo ute
http://www.hsv.com.au/news/2006/fastest_ute.html
and installed mounting points for steel weights in the tray for when the drivers wanted to drive in a "spirited" manner.
Don't know where the points were in the tray, or the size of the weights.
As to my aversion of polar moments of inertia, and unloading axles, when I was in high school, and we were studying complex levers, I was doing yardwork with my father.
We dug about a half box trailer of wet clay, that he insisted go as far back in the trailer as was possible. I favoured over the trailer axle, but Dad won. Tow vehicle was a Holden Torana, 1 tonne, 6 cyl with about half the engine hanging over the front axle, and a fairly light tail.
Driving on dry bitumen, with the rear already light, and unloaded by the rear loaded trailer, as he rounded a curve, the two extreme masses at the ends fought the back tyres and forded the car into a sort of reverse jack-knife, rear of the car sliding INTO the centre of curvature.
Steve - your anecdote describes a completely different situation. A vehicle/trailer combination is a system...and you created a negatively stable system by having the center of mass (load) BEHIND the center of pressure (wheels)....anyone who knows anything about trailering knows that you want 10 - 20% of the total weight on the tongue - that places center of mass ahead and makes for a stable system.
We're talking about a single vehicle...
The Polar Moment of Intertia is relatively unimportant in a pick-up truck....and given the amount of weight being discussed here (250 - 500lbs) it is a very minor change in polar moment anyway.
The key to the OP's dilemma is the weight distribution for driving on snow - the close he can get to 50/50, the better he will be able to go...without load, a pick-up is around 65/35...with 35% of the weight on the driving wheels...not good. After all - the amount of forward force you can generate is the Normal force over the driving axle (% of weight distribution times total vehicle weight) times mu - and that forward force has to accelerate the entire vehicle mass.
So, by placing the added weight to the rear, you get the most change in weight distribution (as one respondent put it, you unweight the front - exactly! and that's desireable...) for the increase in weight of the vehicle. Placing the same weight in front of the rear axle increases the vehicle weight by the same amount, but puts some of that new load on the front axle, so it offers the LEAST improvement in weight distribution...and the LEAST increase in traction.
Several years ago I had a 2007 2 wheel drive Ranger. Put Firestone winter force snows on the back and hardly spun a tire all winter. No extra weight necessary. This is in Michigan too.
You guys doing this by math and placing the weight waaaaay back are thinking too hard.
Put it over the rear axle and get 50/50. Go higher with the weight and start going to the front to maintain 50/50-ish.
Been doing this for 30 yrs and started out with it as far back as possible. The back end really comes around fast in a turn loaded that way. It's cool when you want to do a bat-turn, but not when you don't. Even loaded over the axle and forward the rear end will come around, but not nearly as quickly.
Real world results trump bench racing.
Put it over the rear axle and get 50/50. Go higher with the weight and start going to the front to maintain 50/50-ish.
Been doing this for 30 yrs and started out with it as far back as possible. The back end really comes around fast in a turn loaded that way. It's cool when you want to do a bat-turn, but not when you don't. Even loaded over the axle and forward the rear end will come around, but not nearly as quickly.
Real world results trump bench racing.
Real world, then, polar moment of inertia is noticeable.
Fair enough, Mr. Incredible.
Truthfully, from my experience with an '82 Chevy S-10 in the snow: what he needs is snow tires, but I was trying to keep to his question: weight distribution...
Fair enough, Mr. Incredible.
Truthfully, from my experience with an '82 Chevy S-10 in the snow: what he needs is snow tires, but I was trying to keep to his question: weight distribution...
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The easiest way to add weight is 4-5 70lb bags of tube sand. At the end of the year, use the sand wherever needed.
The best thing that I have ever used to add weight is the Suretrax bag. It just became a PITA to fill/drain/pack away every year.
The best thing that I have ever used to add weight is the Suretrax bag. It just became a PITA to fill/drain/pack away every year.
In the worst weather (for eastern Nebraska, anyway) I wind up with about ten 70lb bags in the back. Six across the axle and four under the tool box.
When I have good snow/mud tires on, I have never failed to pull out whatever I've been hooked up to in snow. I've even managed to pull a couple of single-axle articulated trucks. One was a beer truck, but all I got was a handshake.
I can use the sand tubes for two or three years before I have to slice them open in the garden or back yard and dump out the sand. I put them in the shed over the summer. I think I'll try some sort of UV protectant this year to see if that helps any. I've thought of covering them with a small tarp, but it goes in one side of the brain and directly out the other. I suppose when I can't carry one in each hand around back to the shed I know I'll officially be Old.
When I have good snow/mud tires on, I have never failed to pull out whatever I've been hooked up to in snow. I've even managed to pull a couple of single-axle articulated trucks. One was a beer truck, but all I got was a handshake.
I can use the sand tubes for two or three years before I have to slice them open in the garden or back yard and dump out the sand. I put them in the shed over the summer. I think I'll try some sort of UV protectant this year to see if that helps any. I've thought of covering them with a small tarp, but it goes in one side of the brain and directly out the other. I suppose when I can't carry one in each hand around back to the shed I know I'll officially be Old.
Originally Posted By: Stewart Fan
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Every time it snows, I shovel a lot of snow into the back of my truck. Great traction.
It also unloads itself as it melts.
Win/win
X3. Or find some one cleaeing a parking lot with an end loader and have them to "fill'er up!"
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Every time it snows, I shovel a lot of snow into the back of my truck. Great traction.
It also unloads itself as it melts.
Win/win
X3. Or find some one cleaeing a parking lot with an end loader and have them to "fill'er up!"
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Originally Posted By: HM12460
Several years ago I had a 2007 2 wheel drive Ranger. Put Firestone winter force snows on the back and hardly spun a tire all winter. No extra weight necessary. This is in Michigan too.
That is impressive. As I understand it western Michigan gets a lot more snow, especaially if you are in the range of influence of Lake Michigan.
Another important factor is that you don't want really wide tires in snow. Narrower tires will cut through it better.
Several years ago I had a 2007 2 wheel drive Ranger. Put Firestone winter force snows on the back and hardly spun a tire all winter. No extra weight necessary. This is in Michigan too.
That is impressive. As I understand it western Michigan gets a lot more snow, especaially if you are in the range of influence of Lake Michigan.
Another important factor is that you don't want really wide tires in snow. Narrower tires will cut through it better.
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