Water Filtration for Well

[Cujet]

I would like to add a water softener. I dont have a drain available where it would need to be, how much salt does the regen put out, i would not want it to harm my yard or trees in the woods .

My water is very hard with lime.

For sake of this discussion, all of the salt you put in comes out of the softener's discharge. (not really true, as the sodium ion exchange does consume some sodium). Backwash can be more salty than sea water. Many people don't end up with a ring of dead vegetation around the softener discharge location because they provide a "french drain" (gravel underground) or discharge it into the sewer or storm drain system.

Whether a french drain is acceptable to you (or in your location) is another thing entirely.

Softener backwash is harmful to septic tanks. The salt water is heavier than water and will disrupt a septic tank through various actions. Including the backwash sinking to the bottom and lifting sludge during the backwash cycle, putting sludge in the drainfield! Potentially leading to clogging your drainfield. It's better to put the backwash directly into the drainfield. This is generally easy to accomplish.

 

[GON]

I would never ever call a "water guy". They are almost always hocus pocus, salesmen. They go from selling used cars, to aluminum siding, to water softeners.

What I would do- go with two water boss units. Sold at Menards and Home Depot. An Iron filter first, followed by a water softnener. I would get knowledgeable on pex plumbing, and do it all myself.

Later today I will post pictures of this and like configurations.

 

[doitmyself]

Softener backwash is harmful to septic tanks. The salt water is heavier than water and will disrupt a septic tank through various actions. Including the backwash sinking to the bottom and lifting sludge during the backwash cycle, putting sludge in the drainfield! Potentially leading to clogging your drainfield. It's better to put the backwash directly into the drainfield. This is generally easy to accomplish.

Cujet,

There are objective research reports that conclude a high efficiency water softener maintained and operated properly will not destroy your septic system.

Here's a starter review: https://www.water-rightgroup.com/resources/septic-system-water-softener/

Water Quality Association..... https://www.wqa.org/programs-services/resources/publications/research-studies " Overall, the studies concluded that it is better to discharge water softener wastes to septic tank systems than to separate dry wells or ditches."

https://www.wqa.org/Portals/0/Media Kit/WQA Publications/Softeners and Septic Toolkit.pdf ...Newer 2012 study to follow up on the questions posed in the original U of W studies below.
"The conclusion is that when operated properly and efficiently, water softeners may actually help septic systems work better. A contrary implication of this also holds: When a softening deviceis set very inefficiently or regeneration wastes are diverted, it appears there could be negative conse-quences for a connected septic system."

Univ. of Wisconsin Study (old) https://www.uwsp.edu/cnr-ap/watershed/Pages/GWSofteners.aspx ..read the section where "some experts disagree" ....... all studies are subject to errors and bias.


For DIY home water treatment learning, I highly recommend starting at the Terry Love plumbing forum (water softener threads). There are several pros that participate there and one very passionate DIYer that is a self taught expert......this give a good balance of advice.

One needs to spend $50 +/- and get a lab analysis of your water first. There is no way around this for well owners. Municipal water supplies should have test results available.

If you are a good self learner, you can learn most of what you need to know starting at that site and expanding your internet education. I did this about 3 years ago to size and install a softener that would handle a modest amount of iron in addition to hardness.

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[Tom NJ]

Our well water is clean and relatively soft but did test high in iron. Since I intend on staying in this house I popped for a high end whole house system consisting of three 5' feet tall cylinders and a filter. The first cylinder contains Calcite and raises the pH above 7.0, necessary for the system to work. The second cylinder injects air into water to increase the dissolved oxygen content. The third cylinder contains Birm, which acts as a catalyst between the dissolved oxygen and the soluble iron compounds and produces ferric hydroxide which precipitates and may be easily filtered. The water then passes through a "Big Blue" filter with a 20 inch 1 micron filter. The Calcite and Birm tanks automatically back flush on a preset schedule. This system is nearly maintenance free but the beds may need to be changed every 5-10 years.

There are cheaper alternatives, such as a single tank that contains a bed of Calcite and a bed or Birm in the same tank and costs less than $1,000 installed. I haven't researched it but there are likely other smaller systems designed just for drinking or laundry water.

 

[walterjay]

Call a local plumber that has experience with water treatment in your local area. They are usually a lot less than the water treatment company salesmen. See what they have to say. Have them answer any and all questions that you have.

 

[Cujet]

Cujet,

There are objective research reports that conclude a high efficiency water softener maintained and operated properly will not destroy your septic system.

I did not claim it will destroy a septic system. Only that a softener can disrupt the septic and cause issues unrelated to bacterial action. This is well known around here.

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[ls1mike]

Look let me start off by saying I don't anything about this...but I should. My well water sucked when I moved in. Heavy sulfur smell, lots of iron it was staining EVERYTHING including our clothes. 6 years ago we had a whole house water filtration installed. We went with a highly recommended local well guy. No more sulfur, no more staining. The grass where I back feed? Besides the leach field it the greenest part of the lawn in the summer. Ours looks similar to this. It was 16,000 dollars with new Well/Pump house. Our pump house is on the other side of the property from the septic system. Don't mess around with it. It was ruining our appliances and I have since installed all new bath fixtures as they were all rust stained.
edit: I did have them put an outside house connection after the system...No water spots when I wash the car. I know...first world problems.

 

[GON]

LS1Mike has a great setup. Looks like a sediment filter with backflush, iron filter, water softener and a whole house filter. Just my guesstimate. He spent 16k, and well worth it. If you have the money- that is the way to go.

The good news if you can't afford a solution in the very low five figure range- you can mirror much of what LS1Mike has for under 2k, if you install yourself. You are going to have to figure out the discharge of the waste water- but you have options. I can't find pics of my system, but I have a setup close to LS1Mike, that I self installed. It smelled, left huge sediment in the pipes, etc. Water was so bad it ate through the copper pipes twice. Did my self install, and never a problem. One feature I have that LS1Mike appears not to have is I have a dual tank water softener. The benefit of a dual tank is the system regenerates based on water used, not time. Saves a lot of salt. When one tank is regenerating, the other tank is softening the water.

For years I discharged the discharge water into the septic tank. My sense it was not good, as I was putting salt, iron, potassium promagrate into the septic tank. My solution was to install a sump pump basin next to the water conditioning system. I use a sump pump in the basin to push the water out of the basin and into a french drain. Some day I will install a second basin and pump, tie the two systems together, so if one pump fails the other will take over.

What LS1Mike does not have, which is very common in these setups, is bypass of some or all of the water conditioning components. It drives me crazy, too pay top dollar and the installer, for another one hour of labor and 100 in parts can allow the flow of water if any component fails. What the installer states is you can do it by using the bypass valves built into the components- which is technically accurate but operationally flawed.

We have two homes, I don't have a picture of my system with the real bad water- that home is 1500 miles from me. But I just took a picture of the waterboss I installed in our home in Utah that is on city water. The key to my install is I can remove the water softener from the home right now, with zero disruption to water delivery to the home. Every other home in my subdivision, if you pull the water softener, no more water to the house. All so the installer could save a few minutes and a few dollars in parts.... and make you call him if you have a problem. I can buy a replacement water softener today of most any make and model, and replace it myself, in under 30 minutes, all while water flows to every faucet in the home. This softener is a waterboss, sold at home depot, made in Ohio, I think I paid about $350. They provide customer service direct tpo the homeowner, multi year warranty, and a call to Ohio gets you a technician to walk you through a repair.

I did find a pic of my other system. Not real clear- but if you look to the far right one can see the sump basin.

 

[ls1mike]

That one is not mine exactly. It does have all those components and a bypass. I was too lazy to walk out and take picture.
I think the water part was 6,000 ish. The shed with a concrete poured was the rest, but I can't remember for sure.
I used to keep track of how much salt we go through. I think my tank holds 6 to 8 bags. I fill it every 3 to 4 months. I use the same salt you have pictured. There are two things I don't mess with at the house. My heat pump and this thing. I have a someone service this and the heat pump yearly. 100 bucks a year for check up on the water system. 250 for the heat pump.

 

[ls1mike]

Pump house in relation to the garage. That is where the well is also. Acre and a half and that is where I squeeze my trailer
I have full hookups for it over there. Works as a nice guest house. I need to go to the dump that is the trailers old sink I replaced
it recently.

The bypass is behind the tanks. The filters are on the wall between the shelf and pressure tank they were easy
to get at there. The water runs through those before the rest of the system.

I recently replaced the pump controller as it died. That was easy. Easy to troubleshoot too.

 

[HonorAndHonesty]

We are well water that has alot of sediment and iron in it, Years ago I installed two GE whole house water filters in series before the softener, At this time I am running dual gradient filters in them both 25/1 microns. The filters are not 100 percent efficient so the second in series catches enough to make it worthwhile.

After that the water goes thru a softener which I use "iron out" salt in. From there it is ready to use, I have hot and cold softened water spigots available for outdoor use as well as raw unfiltered water. You would definitely not want to use unfiltered and softened water to wash the house or cars.

For drinking water I feed softened water to a APEC 5 stage reverse osmosis system with a disinfecting UV light. So by the time we drink our water it has been thru a 7 stage filtration process, 8 if you include the softner as a stage. By this point our water is wonderful to drink.

I have never experienced an objectionable lack of pressure using the 1 micron filter, I use a pressure washer and never had an issue with lack of flow, I also do not have to replace the filters extremely often, maybe our water isnt as bad as I make it out to be.

 

[UG_Passat]

Back when I had a house with a well...

I used to buy 60 lb water softener salt pellets.....I believe it was morton, yellow bag, purple text. Guess, now it's "Clean and Protect"

Filter: depends on what you're aiming for... the woven stuff isn't the highest micron filtering, but good for sediment filtering and lasts a while. The carbon activated ones had better water filtering... but doesn't last that long in my case... whenever I noticed the water pressure dropping from the sink, it was time to change the filter. But, the carbon activated ones did make the water taste better.

If I had to do it again... I would have at least 2 filters in series, one woven one for the sediment filtering, then after that the carbon for taste.

 

[Cujet]

I also do not have to replace the filters extremely often, maybe our water isnt as bad as I make it out to be.

Or, more likely, your water treatment system is up to the job.

I guess that was the point I was trying to make above. Products exist to treat the specific (common) water issues at hand. Choosing them correctly and sizing them correctly (in general, larger is better) is what matters.

Paying too much for those products is, unfortunately, all too common.

Here is an example of a 2 cubic foot (larger) iron filter, for $1,072. I've seen vendors charge $2500 for the same thing, and thousands to install it.

https://www.discountwatersofteners....w-iron-and-sulfur-backwashing-katalox-filter/

 

[Cujet]

Just another quick note:

It's not hard to understand the quality of your water. Have it tested. Then pick your equipment appropriately. There are softeners that are configured to remove a few PPM of iron along with the typical hardness and tannens (that's what I do) . It's not unusual for such a softener to be able to remove 6 or 7PPM of iron.

As always, I prefer larger softeners. Fewer regenerations, longer media life, and better performance with high flow rates.

 

[Stephen111]

I used the AFWFilters Fleck 9100 SXT twin tank water softener for my well and I really like it. The water quality is very good, clean, and no smell. More importantly, it has lower operating costs and no need to schedule recharges or set a vacation mode, no interruption of soft water.