Was Subaru once connected to VW?

[Marukai]

I have been trying to research weather or not Subaru had a history of dealings with VW. Many of the old Subaru's from the 60s look like VW's and use rear engine layouts as well as horizontally opposed engines. I do know that both companies were involved in WWII, but that's the only thing that I can find. I have attached some pics so that everyone can see the close similarities. The pictures include the Subaru 360 which looks very much like the old beetle and the Subaru Sambar which looks like the VW bus. I have also noticed that a lot of Subaru dealers also sell VW's.

Sambar

360

VW Pics:

Does anyone know if these companies are somehow related?

 

[expat]

Copied, not related. (as far as I know)

 

[expat]

x

 

[zloveraz]

Nope never related. The earlier engineering designes were made mostly by Nakajima Aircraft Company engineers hence the horizontally opposed engines. Nakajima Aircraft Company later became Fuji Heavy Industries the parent company. Subaru of America was founded by Malcolm Bricklin and later Subaru bought him out I think in 1986. I know all this because my father worked for SOA for 25 years.

Believe it or not the earlier Subaru models like the 360 you have pictured above weren't anywhere close to VW standards.

 

[Marukai]

They look so similar that it's hard to not see them in some sort of collaboration. The 360 has the "bubbly look" of the rear engine beetle and the buses look similar also. It's unfortunate that not too many 360's and buses were released into the US. I have yet to come across a Subi 360 or bus in person.

 

[Shannow]

Was at a wrecker some years ago, and there was an engineless kombi with a subaru carbed 1.8 sitting on a pallet as though about to be forked into position.

People playing for sure, but looked pretty close

 

[Popinski]

Of course, since they're Japanese, people are not going to say "copied", but "influenced" or now "collaboration". Even today, it still makes me sick that people think the Japanese did everything on their own and that their styles are unique.

 

[Shannow]

Ninjas make you sick ?

 

[Popinski]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Ninjas make you sick ?


That also makes me sick. Ninja's were nothing but bad gangsters. Unfortunately, they got a good rep from Japanese cartoons and TV shows. It boggles my mind how much of us Americans are suckered into Japanese cartoons, video games and TV shows.

 

[Eddie]

When Subaru was reviewing vehicles being sold at that time, Subaru picked Porsche & VW as possible starting points. I read that Subaru bought many VWs & a few Porsche vehicles to study. Subaru chose liquid cooling and a front engine layout but, retained the excellent 180 degree engine layout (opposing cylinders). This for vehicles Subaru want to build for the US & world market. I have never read that VW or Porsche was ever connected financially or otherwise.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Popinski
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Ninjas make you sick ?


That also makes me sick. Ninja's were nothing but bad gangsters. Unfortunately, they got a good rep from Japanese cartoons and TV shows. It boggles my mind how much of us Americans are suckered into Japanese cartoons, video games and TV shows.


OK then, how about Samurai ?

 

[Popinski]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Popinski
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Ninjas make you sick ?


That also makes me sick. Ninja's were nothing but bad gangsters. Unfortunately, they got a good rep from Japanese cartoons and TV shows. It boggles my mind how much of us Americans are suckered into Japanese cartoons, video games and TV shows.


OK then, how about Samurai ?


Ok, you're playing with me you sneaky Aussie.

 

[The_Jeff]

I've noticed convenient pairings in dealerships.

VW/Mazda being one.

Not an expert on franchise agreements or anything, but maybe VW dealers were allowed to take on other makes (or financially able to expand!) at about the time Mazda started picking up steam.

 

[fdcg27]

The 360 was offered briefly in the US.
It is an altogether smaller and less powerful car than was the VW, and it had a two stroke vertical twin engine.
I think the shape is coincidental.
There were many rear-engine cars during the 'sixties, and a number ended up with a similar shape.
The smallest Fiats come to mind, for example.
An example of form following function.
In the case of the van, a one-box vehicle ends up looking pretty much the same whomever may have designed it. Was the Corvair Greenbrier copied from the VW Microbus, or was the small van that Fiat built a design stolen from the Germans?
Once again, form follows function.
In the case of the later HO engines that became one of Subaru's signature features, along with AWD and widespread turbo use, VW was hardly the first user of the design, and VW opposed engines were almost never liquid cooled, there being but one exception.
Also, VW opposed engines, even the liquid cooled one, were never cast en bloc, rather they were always built-up assemblies, unlike the Subarus, which have always used a cast cylinder block.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Popinski
Of course, since they're Japanese, people are not going to say "copied", but "influenced" or now "collaboration". Even today, it still makes me sick that people think the Japanese did everything on their own and that their styles are unique.

I don't begrudge you your opinion on this at all, and in somewhat milder form, I agree. That said, the Japanese certainly have no monopoly upon "industrial espionage" and it's nothing new, and it rages on unabated to this day, and will on into the future. If it gets blatant and open enough there may be legal recourse, but usually, the perpetrators are clever enough in their "mission accomplishment" that they get away with it.

 

[fdcg27]

The Japanese have also built some stuff that is as hard-headed in its "we do things our way" uniqueness as anything ever to come from Germany.
The Mitubishi MU-2 comes to mind.
In general, all applied engineering builds upon what was developed in the past.
Once someone hits upon a winning formula, variations on that theme are adopted by all.
There is a fine line between theft of intellectual property and arriving at the same soloution to the same engineering goal or problem.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Look at WWII, the Japanese airforce was all Luftwaffe designs.

 

[wirelessF]

Was VW part of Toyota? The VW Taro looks like those early 90's Toyota pickups.

 

[zloveraz]

Originally Posted By: wirelessF
Was VW part of Toyota? The VW Taro looks like those early 90's Toyota pickups.

VW was never part of Toyota, that is a Toyota Hilux, VW and Toyota joined forces in the late 80's since Toyota wanted market share of the truck market in Europe and VW needed a truck. Toyota didn't have the dealer network however VW did, enter the partnership and VW Taro.

Badge engineering at it's best...

 

[wirelessF]

Yeah, they did it with the Routan. Kinda surprised because VW used to make cool vans. To rebadge a Chrysler is sad.