Warranty Frustration/Question

[bunnspecial]

This is not an automobile, but something that's been frustrating me for a couple of days and I'm wondering what folks here think about this.

Among my many hobbies, I collect and use fountain pens. I have both old and new pens(new meaning both current models bought used and also plenty bought new).

One of my favorite go-to brands for a while, and in fact one I've always bought new, is Lamy. A lot of their models are inexpensive but excellent quality, and I've bought plenty as gifts for people interested in pens as well as several of their higher end(and inexpensive) models for myself. One of the big selling points for me was always the warranty, which was an unconditional lifetime with no stipulations about original owner or anything else-just mail it in with a check for return shipping and it comes back fixed. I've known folks who have sent in pens from the 1960s and had them repaired.

One of their longest running models is the 2000, and I bought a new one several years ago. It's not their most expensive model, but it's at the upper end of the range. When I bought it, I paid $125, but they've crept up to $200 in the past few years. What I didn't realize was that they have a known issue where the section(the part that holds the nib to the body of the pen, and the part you hold) tends to crack. Right around the time I bought mine, it was redesigned to all metal, but mine had the old-style one. I've had it repaired once under warranty, but not too long ago it broke again.

The repair address has moved around a bit over the years, so I emailed the other day to ask about the current repair address. The reply I received was that the warranty period was 2 years, and that I would be responsible for the cost of any repairs since I had purchased more than 2 years ago.

I responded by questioning why the warranty I was sold with the pen in 2012 was not being honored, and the response I received was "Sorry, we changed our policy."

Is this legal for them to do this? I'm attaching the full text of the warranty that was in the box when I purchased the pen below

 

[zfasts03]

LL Bean changed their policy to a 1 year limit. It used to be if you were not satisfied for any reason and no time limit. I had a shirt that had fallen apart and when I bought it, it had the "good" warranty. They changed to a 1 year policy after I bought the shirt. So basically I was SOL. I no longer buy LL Bean. Not because their clothes aren't good or their new policy is "bad" It is because of me being pissed off how I got caught in the middle of their change. So I lost that "feel good" feeling about their clothes.

 

[SZR48207]

You could probably take them to court but the filing fees would be greater than the repair fees... that's how they get you LOL

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Yes they can change their warranty - but it doesn't apply to YOU. That was a written contract when you purchased the product.
I would write a letter on a Law firm letterhead stating you want satisfaction fro the client. That would be easy and should get them moving. You can make up a a firm or use one in your state - just change a few specifics. Nothing Illegal about that.. Just some sly gamesmanship when you play with the big boys.

My story: I bought some HAGGAR slacks on sale (at kohl's - I dont like kohl's! ) a few years ago and they had a long warranty. Within one or two wearings the buttons were falling off and some seams were coming unstitched. I filled out a return request online and I heard NOTHING from them. there was no number to call. So I feel these " lifetime" or long warranties from second class corporations are essentially worthless.
You just have to inspect the product and see if it appears it will hold up - I guess. These pants were made in Saudi Arabia IIRC.

-Ken

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

I responded by questioning why the warranty I was sold with the pen in 2012 was not being honored, and the response I received was "Sorry, we changed our policy."

Is this legal for them to do this? I'm attaching the full text of the warranty that was in the box when I purchased the pen below

Without a long class in warranties like I have to deal with, yes it is completely legal (at least under US law) This is a very complex subject with tons of nuances and special circumstances.

Not going into express and implied warranties of merchantability and all that ( deep subject ) but basically the maximum time ( except where state law stipulates differently or by other code) adopted for warranty action under the UCC is 4 years from date of purchase.

A manufacturer can change a warranty anytime they chose but basically must honor the warranty in place at the time of manufacture (not the purchase date as the manufacturer has no control over how long a reseller may warehouse an item) That's why a lot of times stores handle warranties.

Then there's the problem ( with uncertified or un serialized products) of when it was made to see what if any warranty attaches.

Then its a matter of what the individual company decides to do with a product specific case. They al know there is a threshold where it doesn't matter and another where litigation wont happen based on cost etc. ( obviously this changes as the cost or liability changes but those items usually have very detailed warranties)

Some honor a warranty regardless as long as you send it back, some put a time on it, some do it conditionally and some don't do it at all.

Yeah its legal

 

[samven]

If the company went into bankruptcy and sold to new owners, in most cases they wont honor the old warranty. If they changed their warranty period and you send in a Lifetime unit for repair the replacement will be subject to their new policy. I agree, its a total ripoff, Warranties and guarantees are not worth the paper they are written on if the company decides they need a way out.

 

[bunnspecial]

Without a long class in warranties like I have to deal with, yes it is completely legal (at least under US law) This is a very complex subject with tons of nuances and special circumstances.

Not going into express and implied warranties of merchantability and all that ( deep subject ) but basically the maximum time ( except where state law stipulates differently or by other code) adopted for warranty action under the UCC is 4 years from date of purchase.

A manufacturer can change a warranty anytime they chose but basically must honor the warranty in place at the time of manufacture (not the purchase date as the manufacturer has no control over how long a reseller may warehouse an item) That's why a lot of times stores handle warranties.

Then there's the problem ( with uncertified or un serialized products) of when it was made to see what if any warranty attaches.

Then its a matter of what the individual company decides to do with a product specific case. They al know there is a threshold where it doesn't matter and another where litigation wont happen based on cost etc. ( obviously this changes as the cost or liability changes but those items usually have very detailed warranties)

Some honor a warranty regardless as long as you send it back, some put a time on it, some do it conditionally and some don't do it at all.

Yeah its legal

Thanks for the detailed response.

I guess we've been "spoiled" by the warranty that this company has used since the 1950s, especially with this particular pen since it's a known defect that they didn't get around to fixing until 10 years ago. I suspect part of the motivation has been that this IS their signature and most iconic product(even though no longer their most expensive) and in the past they've wanted to keep customers happy and keep the sales up.

In fact, historically, this has been one of the classic recommendations for someone moving from a "starter" cartridge/steel nib pen into the usually higher end gold/piston filler pen. It's not a huge jump in price over $30-50 pens(certainly not Pelikan or Mont Blanc money, even though Pelikan does make steel nib piston fillers at the ~$150 price point). I've "sold" a lot of pens for Lamy over the years-both Safaris(use to be $35-a bit more expensive now) to people wanting a good quality starter and, there again, 2000s to people who want an affordable classic design with some higher end features. The warranty has ALWAYS been a big selling point.

BTW, these pens are serialized, even though most don't know where to look for it(it's a very tiny etching on the side of the cap) so they can at least track the age of the pen.

 

[D60]

Interesting read...I really don't know about legality....all I can say is as a machinist all I can think about is M9x.75 threads which are kinda like Latin but for high end pens it seems

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.....

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Thanks for the detailed response.

I guess we've been "spoiled" by the warranty that this company has used since the 1950s, especially with this particular pen since it's a known defect that they didn't get around to fixing until 10 years ago. I suspect part of the motivation has been that this IS their signature and most iconic product(even though no longer their most expensive) and in the past they've wanted to keep customers happy and keep the sales up.

In fact, historically, this has been one of the classic recommendations for someone moving from a "starter" cartridge/steel nib pen into the usually higher end gold/piston filler pen. It's not a huge jump in price over $30-50 pens(certainly not Pelikan or Mont Blanc money, even though Pelikan does make steel nib piston fillers at the ~$150 price point). I've "sold" a lot of pens for Lamy over the years-both Safaris(use to be $35-a bit more expensive now) to people wanting a good quality starter and, there again, 2000s to people who want an affordable classic design with some higher end features. The warranty has ALWAYS been a big selling point.

BTW, these pens are serialized, even though most don't know where to look for it(it's a very tiny etching on the side of the cap) so they can at least track the age of the pen.

Another example could be the Craftsman tool with "unlimited warranty" and "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back"

They worked well and were strictly enforced as written until all the rules changed and people started taking advantage of them.

Some companies opt to just "do it"- others don't ( some probably cant because margins are too close)

More than one answer to this really and a lot of conditions would apply.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

At a Dev lab I worked at for a bit, I had a NIKON semi-pro camera fail out of warranty, sent it back for a repair estimate, heard nothing. 3 weeks later the camera is back. I said "Oh great they returned it, just bounced it back and didn't say a thing!".
Well guess what, they fixed it. now that is pride in brand. ,Knee-kon,

O.P. Guess what? - Don't do business with this pen company. And why buy a pen with known issues?

I know, the object feels fantastic in the hand an writes fluidly - But it Keeps breaking!
Sort of like Like BMW and KIA engines.

 

[bunnspecial]

At a Dev lab I worked at for a bit, I had a NIKON semi-pro camera fail out of warranty, sent it back for a repair estimate, heard nothing. 3 weeks later the camera is back. I said "Oh great they returned it, just bounced it back and didn't say a thing!".
Well guess what, they fixed it. now that is pride in brand. ,Knee-kon,

O.P. Guess what? - Don't do business with this pen company. And why buy a pen with known issues?

I know, the object feels fantastic in the hand an writes fluidly - But it Keeps breaking!
Sort of like Like BMW and KIA engines.

They're off my "good list" now. Even though I knew I was getting a "bad" design pen, I was assured that it had been fixed at the factory(replacing the crack-prone plastic/stainless part with one that was all stainless with a plastic collar to keep the appearance) a few months before I bought mine, and even if I got older one still in the pipeline the company would make it right if I had issues. Plus, there again, I was assured I didn't have to worry about it even if I did have issues since Lamy's service and warranty was "the best in the business"

My first repair was with the old style plastic/metal replacement.

BTW, my last experience with Nikon service was when I sent my D600(since sold) in for a shutter replacement under a "recall" after they found that with use, it could start throwing oil. It was fixed at the factory level with the nearly identical but improved shutter D610, and the replacement program fitted the D610 shutter.

Nikon has had some bad designs over the years, but they've made right on them for the most part. Of course, as cameras(even film cameras) have become more complex, the likelihood of something getting shipped has become higher. The F100, one of their last major film camera releases and that sold like crazy, quickly developed a reputation for breaking its rewind fork with heavy use. That was a big problem for obvious reasons-even though the target customer would know how to deal with it, it would still ruin your day if that was the only camera you had with you. Galen Rowell, one of the top landscape/nature photographers at the time lit Nikon up about it because just exactly that had happened to him(and he refused to use one again). Nikon did redesign it, and either fixed them or replaced them completely. When I bought my(used) F6 a few years ago, I got an early production one that had a known problem with the batteries reading dead(and the camera quitting) well before they ran down enough to not actually power the camera-I'd get 2-3 rolls out of a set of not-inexpensive CR123s. They didn't charge me to update it to the newer firmware, something that probably only one service center in the US can do(and I wouldn't be shocked if it had to go back to Japan given how low production the F6 is and what's needed to actually update the firmware).

Other than that, though, I've heard less than great things about the Nikon service department you knew and I knew in the past. When the D800 came out, a fair few of them had serious issues with the AF points on one side of the frame. I knew people who finally gave up after 3 trips to the factory to fix it and just dealt with not being able to use the left side AF points. It was fixed for good with the D810, but so much about the D810 is different that the fixes made to it can't really be applied to the D800.

At least Ruger still has an outstanding warranty...