Warming up your car in winter time

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Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Idle warmups wash a bit of excess fuel down the cylinder walls causing some extra wear.


Prove it.


Unfortunately, I don't have a good way to do so. However, when the engine spends more time at low rpm under no load (low combustion temps), and it's in cold start enrichment (extra fuel being dumped into the cylinders), there will be some fuel washdown on the cylinder walls, which causes extra wear. Mind you, this wear is probably insignificant and not going to shorten the life of the engine in any meaningful way, but it's there.
 
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Idle warmups wash a bit of excess fuel down the cylinder walls causing some extra wear.


Prove it.


Unfortunately, I don't have a good way to do so. However, when the engine spends more time at low rpm under no load (low combustion temps), and it's in cold start enrichment (extra fuel being dumped into the cylinders), there will be some fuel washdown on the cylinder walls, which causes extra wear. Mind you, this wear is probably insignificant and not going to shorten the life of the engine in any meaningful way, but it's there.


Now that's believable...but those who are saying it shouldn't be done because it causes engine damage are out in left field...
 
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Idle warmups wash a bit of excess fuel down the cylinder walls causing some extra wear.


Prove it.


Unfortunately, I don't have a good way to do so. However, when the engine spends more time at low rpm under no load (low combustion temps), and it's in cold start enrichment (extra fuel being dumped into the cylinders), there will be some fuel washdown on the cylinder walls, which causes extra wear. Mind you, this wear is probably insignificant and not going to shorten the life of the engine in any meaningful way, but it's there.



Here's the issue for me. While any modern fuel injected engine will indeed add a bit of fuel during the cold start program it's not very much more. The timing is advanced a lot to keep the engine running smoothly but the fuel is still being very precisely measured and dispensed, not "hosing down the cylinder walls". And fuel enrichment is literally for seconds in most cases, as emissions requirements simply do not allow for much of it.

If you have an old carburetor vehicle with a wet manifold design then that may be true, but not in any modern car in good mechanical condition.
 
i think the main factor these days is comfort/convenience vs cost to idle the vehicle for most of us. by my measured experience, 15 min/day = 2 gallons/week = $7.50/week or $30/mo.. How much time must I spend in the office to pay for that luxury? How many lunches would that buy? Would I rather do a movie with my wife? That's how my mind works....
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: meep
i think the main factor these days is comfort/convenience vs cost to idle the vehicle for most of us. by my measured experience, 15 min/day = 2 gallons/week = $7.50/week or $30/mo.. How much time must I spend in the office to pay for that luxury? How many lunches would that buy? Would I rather do a movie with my wife? That's how my mind works....


15 mins is a bit excessive. I've found my car is warmed up enough to clear the windows and make the interior reasonably warm in less than 10 mins...plus I'm not doing this every day, only when the windows are frosted/snowed over...also, my car is a Corolla so it doesn't burn much gas...
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy


Depends on the ambient temp. At -40 most of the vehicles I've owned stayed warmer not moving then traveling at highway speeds. City driving will keep everything a bit warmer though than a highway run.
Though those extreme temps don't last more than a month or so here but -30 is a possibility up til April or so.
I just changed the oil in my hemi. The oil was seriously fuel diluted. I discovered that the during that cold snap we had the oil never got hot enough to evaporate any fuel that accumulated in the oil. Now that I've got a cardboard air dam made up I can feel the oil cooler get hot but before I could put my hand on it and it was barely warm to the touch.


A little off topic but I think us humans just weren't meant to be in temperatures this cold. What the heck were our ancestors thinking when they built cities in these brutally cold climates?? I'm definitely going to have a winter home in Florida when I retire, so I never have to deal with snow and extreme cold ever again.
 
Maybe the Canadians can comment on the aspect of how brittle plastic and rubber gets at very cold temperatures. I've cracked an air cleaner box here in Iowa driving in extreme cold.

I notice all kinds of new sounds when a car is driven in extreme cold without being warmed up.

Any other anecdotes about those issues?
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Depends on the ambient temp. At -40 most of the vehicles I've owned stayed warmer not moving then traveling at highway speeds. City driving will keep everything a bit warmer though than a highway run.


I definitely wouldn't want to try a non-thermostatically controlled aftermarket oil cooler up here in the winter, that's for sure.

@KeithG: One anecdote - I blew a ball joint out of my 1983 LTD a number of years back in -40. It didn't exhibit any of the normal symptoms prior to that. A ball joint failure is a nuisance. In -40, trying to get a tow truck is a major chore, and an outdoor repair virtually an impossibility.
 
This question comes up every single winter, so I will give my standard answer:

It is the role of my automobiles to serve me, not my role to serve them. They are well maintained and get everything that goes with that status.

That having been said when the temperature is below freezing my vehicle (2012 Honda Accord) will run 8-10 minutes in the morning. This duty will commence a week from tomorrow after my remote start is installed. The purpose of this is to clear a frosted windshield and warm the cabin. I figure that since I get up at 4:30 AM and drive 65 miles one way to get to work, that I have earned the right to make this act of drudgery as tolerable as possible. It is well worth the cost of the additional fuel to do so IMO.

Its predecessor, a 2000 Taurus, recently sold with 275K on the clock did so for years and was no worse for the wear at the end of the experience.

Warming up a car may cause some additional wear on the car, but the goal is to minimize wear on me.
 
Which remote start are you getting installed? From what I have heard, Honda branded remote start does not have good reputation and does NOT integrate with keyless at all.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Which remote start are you getting installed? From what I have heard, Honda branded remote start does not have good reputation and does NOT integrate with keyless at all.


Not going with the Honda. Read nothing good about it. Price is crazy stupid ($900 installed.) Even the dealer I purchased from badmouthed it and advised me to go aftermarket. Best price I could find on the net was almost $500 just for the unit.

The dealer I bought the car from has a subsidiary that does car stereo and alarms. He will install a 3 button Prestige for $249, which is as good as I can do locally. I am assuming that it is the one that I have linked. The plus of purchasing it from them is that it will be written into the cars extended warranty:

http://www.audiovoxproducts.com/prestige/remotestart/?sku=APS57C

This will be my fifth prestige. Never had a problem with one.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
All of the "old school" cylinder wall washdown is fast becoming baloney with DI and other technology.

The fact is that idling, even for extended periods, does virtually nothing bad in a modern car, whether cold or hot.

And I think it does no harm to rev the engine before shutting it down either.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Which remote start are you getting installed? From what I have heard, Honda branded remote start does not have good reputation and does NOT integrate with keyless at all.


Not going with the Honda. Read nothing good about it. Price is crazy stupid ($900 installed.) Even the dealer I purchased from badmouthed it and advised me to go aftermarket. Best price I could find on the net was almost $500 just for the unit.

The dealer I bought the car from has a subsidiary that does car stereo and alarms. He will install a 3 button Prestige for $249, which is as good as I can do locally. I am assuming that it is the one that I have linked. The plus of purchasing it from them is that it will be written into the cars extended warranty:

http://www.audiovoxproducts.com/prestige/remotestart/?sku=APS57C

This will be my fifth prestige. Never had a problem with one.


That certainly is a great installed price! I am assuming the bypass module (to keep the Honda anti-theft system happy) is included. Do you have keyless entry in the Honda?
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Which remote start are you getting installed? From what I have heard, Honda branded remote start does not have good reputation and does NOT integrate with keyless at all.


Not going with the Honda. Read nothing good about it. Price is crazy stupid ($900 installed.) Even the dealer I purchased from badmouthed it and advised me to go aftermarket. Best price I could find on the net was almost $500 just for the unit.

The dealer I bought the car from has a subsidiary that does car stereo and alarms. He will install a 3 button Prestige for $249, which is as good as I can do locally. I am assuming that it is the one that I have linked. The plus of purchasing it from them is that it will be written into the cars extended warranty:

http://www.audiovoxproducts.com/prestige/remotestart/?sku=APS57C

This will be my fifth prestige. Never had a problem with one.


That certainly is a great installed price! I am assuming the bypass module (to keep the Honda anti-theft system happy) is included. Do you have keyless entry in the Honda?



That's my understanding in talking with the gentleman. (Especially since the trip to the dealership is 4 hrs round trip.) It certainly better be, I was told that the only other add on would be tax.

I have keyless entry. My understanding is that the Audiovox remote will control the keyless when the remote start is in use. When the start is not in use, I will use the Key (remote is integrated with the key.)
 
If I understand the Honda/Acura system, when you remote start the keyless does not work. You have to enter the car, turn the car off and then restart it again. I am talking about the pushbutton start here when I said keyless.
 
Originally Posted By: KeithG
Maybe the Canadians can comment on the aspect of how brittle plastic and rubber gets at very cold temperatures. I've cracked an air cleaner box here in Iowa driving in extreme cold.

I notice all kinds of new sounds when a car is driven in extreme cold without being warmed up.

Any other anecdotes about those issues?



Well when it's real cold it takes a few minutes before the tires round and quit thumping,as far as plastics are concerned my Chevys grille shattered when I slammed the hood down a couple of winters ago.
These new headlights seem to take a few minutes to achieve full bright in the extreme cold however I don't know if they always work like that
 
I let it warm up until the tach drops to 1,000. It's less "Thunk" when I shift it to R.
 
I wait 2-3 minutes in colder climates, in the hotter weather, about 30 seconds.

I simply want the oil to get picked up and flowing before I jackrabbit on the road.
 
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