Want to talk about cronic under performers?????

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JohnBrowning

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Lets talk about Schaffer's oils in Toyota's?

Royal Purple's street oils in almost anything?

RLI in almost anything?


People use M1 as the wipping boy if anyone ever watched the Mini Series Roots back in the 1980's then M1 would be Toby because it has been wiped so often for no good reason! Yet Schaffers,RLI and RP seem to get a free pass on being wiped for lack luster performance. Seriously when an oil can not turn in great number in your average Toyota V6 or V8 something is wrong! Cheap conventional oils turn in single digit wear often in these modern engines! The entire M1 has high iron was started back when they had their Tri-Syn formula on the market and I dare say that 90% of the guys posting on here now where not on here back then! Yet here it is still alive and well it is almost as silly as "pennzoil cause's sludge" garbage you hear people repeating around the counter at Autozone or Napa or any other parts store!

I value integrity and results nothing else means much these days! So if we are going to beat up on something or someone lets at least be consistent!

I noticed no one seems to pick apart the Amsoil 0W30 what ever formula it is that so under whelms? I do not know if it is because enough people are saying it is good that every one is droping inline and agreeing or if it is because it is a product that is sold by several sponsor's? Personally I could care less who sells it I am the first to give Amsoil praise for some of it's products but not all of them are great products some of them are just ok! So far I have not yet seen an AMSOIL Series 3000 5w30 used oil analysis since I have been back and I can not understand why since it is by far one of their finest oils!!!!Anyone that likes Amsoil owes it to themselfs to try it or at least research it in the used oil analysis section!!!

PP is the cheap boy so I understand why everyone is trying and wants to praise it but it really is not that great. I mean where are all the 9K,10K,11K mile used oil analysis for it? From what I have seen it is spent at 5K-7K miles which is preety said for a synthetic their are conventional oils that can do that. So while the price point and sales on it might be great it does nto deserve all the praise it has gotten. I had a lot of it at one two due to buy one get one free but just because I dump it in my crank case does not make it the best oil since sliced bread it just means it was good enough and the price was right? With out critcal thought and objectivity what is the point of all this used oil analysis stuff seriously? If emotions and bias and profit margins are allowed to rule the roost then why bother with any testing and reporting at all might as well just listen to the marketing hype and just veg?

We cannot allow our pet oil or bias to influence us! The only thing that really counts is results and on this site we measure that with used oil analysis and nothing else?
 
Under performing and lackluster based on used oil analysis? I put absolutely 0 value on a few ppm. I put 0 value on 20ppm. It just doesn't mean a thing. The reasons have been gone over. Just like how Redline produces higher numbers for the first few changes. I've posted my teardown results vs used oil analysis which were on opposite ends of the spectrum. I agree with you 90% of the time but I wouldn't base oil choice on wear metals in a used oil analysis.
 
John - you are taking used oil analysis and the BITOG bench coaching comments a bit too seriously.

I will agree with one thing, your perceptions are bent as much as you think other peoples perceptions are bent.

It's also amazing you could bring "Roots" into a post about oil. I didn't think that would be possible until just now!
 
Quote:
I noticed no one seems to pick apart the Amsoil 0W30 what ever formula it is that so under whelms?


I've seen a funky used oil analysis or two with SSO. I've seen far more go a year and could have lapped up more without a problem.

Quote:
or if it is because it is a product that is sold by several sponsor's?


Pabs and I take it on the chin daily for one thing or another. If it's not some revenge for some Yahoo! jerkwater junction dealer selling them the moon and pathway to riches beyond their wildest dreams via the MLM system ..it's this or that ..

..does it matter after a while?
21.gif


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So far I have not yet seen an Amsoil S3K 5W30 used oil analysis


I'm using it right now. I'll let you know in a bit under a year. It's a great oil ..sure.

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People use M1 as the wipping boy


..and just as many could care less if it seized your engine, stole their wife ..ruined their life. They'd defend it to the bitter end. Others will attack it to the same degree even if it worked better than Extends or Viagra.

There are a few odd phenomenons with groups. Most of them like a hanging
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PP is the cheap boy so I understand why everyone is trying and wants to praise it but it really is not that great.


Decent product. Not so cheap anymore. It's gains in popularity was its price point. A few more nickles for synthetic over dino? Not marketed as an extended drain oil ..but can work in some applications for a decent amount of time and mileage.

Quote:
We cannot allow our pet oil or bias to influence us!


Yeah ..and you can have a Ford or GM fan admit that there were actually some defective products put on the market too.
 
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Under performing and lackluster based on used oil analysis? I put absolutely 0 value on a few ppm. I put 0 value on 20ppm. It just doesn't mean a thing. The reasons have been gone over. Just like how Redline produces higher numbers for the first few changes. I've posted my teardown results vs used oil analysis which were on opposite ends of the spectrum. I agree with you 90% of the time but I wouldn't base oil choice on wear metals in a used oil analysis.


I agree completely.

John I usually agree with you and enjoy reading your posts, but I think you're off on this one. I saw your post in the Schaeffer's/4Runner used oil analysis. I will say again, you aren't looking at the used oil analysis as a whole, check it out again.

I'm using Schaeffer's in all of our Corolla's, and the performance is far from lackluster. I would say 20ppm or so of Iron w/ a 11K used oil analysis that had high Si, isn't bad at all. As BuickGN said, a few Parts per million of wear is nothing to get worked up about. I base my oil choices off of track records and real world experiences.
 
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
Lets talk about Schaffer's oils in Toyota's?

Royal Purple's street oils in almost anything?

RLI in almost anything?


People use M1 as the wipping boy if anyone ever watched the Mini Series Roots back in the 1980's then M1 would be Toby because it has been wiped so often for no good reason! Yet Schaffers,RLI and RP seem to get a free pass on being wiped for lack luster performance. Seriously when an oil can not turn in great number in your average Toyota V6 or V8 something is wrong! Cheap conventional oils turn in single digit wear often in these modern engines! The entire M1 has high iron was started back when they had their Tri-Syn formula on the market and I dare say that 90% of the guys posting on here now where not on here back then! Yet here it is still alive and well it is almost as silly as "pennzoil cause's sludge" garbage you hear people repeating around the counter at Autozone or Napa or any other parts store!

I value integrity and results nothing else means much these days! So if we are going to beat up on something or someone lets at least be consistent!

I noticed no one seems to pick apart the Amsoil 0W30 what ever formula it is that so under whelms? I do not know if it is because enough people are saying it is good that every one is droping inline and agreeing or if it is because it is a product that is sold by several sponsor's? Personally I could care less who sells it I am the first to give Amsoil praise for some of it's products but not all of them are great products some of them are just ok! So far I have not yet seen an AMSOIL Series 3000 5w30 used oil analysis since I have been back and I can not understand why since it is by far one of their finest oils!!!!Anyone that likes Amsoil owes it to themselfs to try it or at least research it in the used oil analysis section!!!

PP is the cheap boy so I understand why everyone is trying and wants to praise it but it really is not that great. I mean where are all the 9K,10K,11K mile used oil analysis for it? From what I have seen it is spent at 5K-7K miles which is preety said for a synthetic their are conventional oils that can do that. So while the price point and sales on it might be great it does nto deserve all the praise it has gotten. I had a lot of it at one two due to buy one get one free but just because I dump it in my crank case does not make it the best oil since sliced bread it just means it was good enough and the price was right? With out critcal thought and objectivity what is the point of all this used oil analysis stuff seriously? If emotions and bias and profit margins are allowed to rule the roost then why bother with any testing and reporting at all might as well just listen to the marketing hype and just veg?

We cannot allow our pet oil or bias to influence us! The only thing that really counts is results and on this site we measure that with used oil analysis and nothing else?


You need to go see s shrink to deal with your emotional issues. Wow!
lol.gif


Also, not sure why you continue to bash RP and make claims such as "Royal Purple's street oils in almost anything?" as a chronic under performer. That is such bull I wouldn't even know where to start. I have used their regular street oils in everythingf rom daily drivers to muscle cars and hot rods and it has performed great.

Dude, relax and go take a nice walk to clear your head.
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It was either Roots or Starship Trooper's as those are the only Movie's I could think of that had routine use of whipping people for what seemed like idiotic reasons! I was not sure if some of the older people on this site would know a reference to Starship Trooper's it is true though M1 is treated like [censored] and a bused all the time while far lesser oils get hyped left and right! If UOA no longer counts for anything then I would expect to see a lot more tear downs on the sight. You have to have some objective repeatable test or what is the point any oil can the best flavor of the month with nothing but an opinion?

As for tear down it tracks well with UOA as long as each part is weighted before assembly with an analytical scale just like we all used in Chemistry class. Then if you compare UOA to post weighted parts at tear down you find they coralate very well. That was one of my job's at GM when not tearing into warranty items. Analytical Forensic Powertrain tear down is used during the validation process usually when the engines are being dyno tested before captured fleet is even on the road yet accumulation miles.

It can be even more accurate if you use isotopes added to the parts,oil or use a special coating like how some commercial engines have silver on some of the bearings to distinguish them from other less failure prone bearings etc.

We have to keep in mind that most OEM's do not consider anything problematic until you hit 150ppm's or higher. On bitog we use it to get super silly small results like single digit wear metals or close to it for a 10K mile UOA. We use the test differently then it is designed to be used only on a few occasions do we get the chance to prevent a sever failure for someone with UOA on this site as most of us maintain our vehicles in good state of order!

So if UOA cannot be used to make a judgment about the oils above then that must mean we are all going to let M1 off the hook for high iron as well? I guess we are going to shut the sight done know as well since if we cannot use UOA to determine what oil is working better in our vehicle then what is the point of the sight other then to sell sponsors product's which tend to be oil related? You the problem with saying UOA is not good enough to determine if an oil is good in an application or not? IF you take away the validation of UOA then how do you sell Amsoil,RP,LUBE Control,super filters from Amsoil and the rest of your product's?You have to have some way to prove what you are saying is true or at the very least plausible?!? If UOA is no good then how do we trust the test's that Amsoil use's to demonstrate it's product is better then all of the other ones it test's along side itself?

Yes I think things are bent(talk about British English)but things are not so Bent that they can not be made right again! I think most of the products sold on this sight can stand on their own if allowed to and so can other products like M1.

People can say what they like but until all of the UOA that has been done and posted on this sight is locked up anyone that car's to go back and read will often find I am being completely honest and non-biased! I take great pride in my integrity and consistency. I do not change my mind every time the wind blows unless their is good reason for it!

I did not post for many months because I busy doing other things and enjoyed the break from this sight. I thought this sight was going side ways for some time which is too bad because it used to be a great sight. Someone has to be the lone voice crying out in the wilderness!

At one point I was accused of trying to get oil for free like I was trying to shake down people. It was not true at all I asked some people to put their money where their mouth is basically. One person decided to take me up on it and was going to send me a case of Royal Purple 0W40. Since I offered to run any oil they wanted to send me to compare with the oils I ran in my car and had posted UOA on. I made a point about not being willing to pay more for an oil then what I pay at Walmart. Talk is cheap and only one person was willing to put his product up to the test in my car against the M1 I normally use. THe rest cried foul and tried to make it sound like I was trying to shake them down for free oil! I am sure it is looked on here and can be found rather easily! I was so offended that I decided to just take a vacation from the sight!

I also started playing an instrument again which took up a lot of my time as I relearned that. I also am going to college and have three kids so I do not have an empty plate! My post's are consistent. I am not selling anything and if you look at past post's you will find that not all members can say that! I am sure if I had something to sell I would be on here all the time with no gaps in my posting so I could stear things my way! The truth is seldom as good for business as 1/2 a truth!
 
John- I enjoy reading your posts and like I said, I usually agree with you. In no way am I attacking you personally.

I don't agree with using used oil analysis, especially single digit ppms as a way of determining which oil is better. Too many things can influence this. As I'm sure you have seen, used oil analysis didn't pick up a thing when I had two engines fail and they failed in a horrible way with everything from the mains and rods to the cylinders/rings being destroyed. I had glittery oil and 4 used oil analysis on it and nothing showed up. All it picked up is a slight increase in lead. I won't bore anyone with the details as I think I've already done that too much.

used oil analysis are valuable for many things such as oil life remaining or to show if there's coolant in the oil. I just don't put any faith in the wear metals section. If by some chance the wear metals spiked to 150ppm or more, it might get my attention but like I said, I've never seen anything into the double digits. That's just my experience over 7-8 used oil analysis and two worn engines. A small data point but can I be expected to react any different?

Take Redline for instance. We know it's a great oil. But if we went by the first couple used oil analysis, we would think it's terrible. However teardowns show a different story.
 
Originally Posted By: c3po
John, I enjoy your posts, can you tell us which oil you like.


He likes Mobil 1.


Oil is oil, we all have our preferences, some people look for certain characteristics for an oil. I personally want some moly in my oils because of its outstanding wear protection, but not to much where it could cause more harm than good. Others want a thicker weight oil or thinner for whatever reason.

Wear numbers to me don't mean much, a used oil analysis is good for really determining if there is a problem, namely coolant in the oil and the length an oil can survive in a certain type of engine+sump configuration.
 
I always wondered why some paid so much attention to a few extra PPM in a used oil analysis.

[censored], there could be residue in the container. Parts per MILLION?

Why don't the guy get excited over that and write us a book?
 
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
I was not sure if some of the older people on this site would know a reference to Starship Trooper's


The "older" people might not know a reference to Starship Troopers?!?" Gimme a break, the book was written in the 1950s! (and is way better than the movie, although I like the movie).

I would apologize for going off topic, but howmuch further off could we go????
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Originally Posted By: Anies
Originally Posted By: c3po
John, I enjoy your posts, can you tell us which oil you like.


He likes Mobil 1.




He also likes Redline.

I have a much easier time following Doug's posts though and no offence to John, but Doug's seem to have a lot more "direction" to them......
 
Originally Posted By: 97f150
Should I worry that my engines will self destruct because I dont run M1 in them?


No, just as long as you don't use Royal Purple they will be fine...
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