VW variable speed oil pump; necessity of using 0W20?

[cammyfive79]

*Disclaimer: I'm in no danger of ever being mistaken for an engineer*

I was talking to a fellow Mk8 (2022+) GTI owner online the other night, and the subject drifted to oil selection. When I told him that I'm using Mobil 1 ESP 0W30 for a number of reasons every 5K he replied that I was in danger of "hurting" my engine since this gen GTI has a new variable speed oil pump made with the factory recommended 0W20 (508) oil in mind. I've read enough here to know that the possibility of harm coming to my engine by bumping viscosity one grade is statistically insignificant but I'm trying to think through the statement of the specific oil pump this car uses being spec'ed for 0W20 and 0W30 not being a good choice. Again, as a total non-engineering-minded person, what is a layman's way to think through this fallacy? Of course.....I'm totally open to someone supplying evidence that my online friend is right, although I doubt I'll get many arguing that side of the case.

 

[6.7 CTD]

Find a new friend

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

*Disclaimer: I'm in no danger of ever being mistaken for an engineer*

I was talking to a fellow Mk8 (2022+) GTI owner online the other night, and the subject drifted to oil selection. When I told him that I'm using Mobil 1 ESP 0W30 for a number of reasons every 5K he replied that I was in danger of "hurting" my engine since this gen GTI has a new variable speed oil pump made with the factory recommended 0W20 (508) oil in mind. I've read enough here to know that the possibility of harm coming to my engine by bumping viscosity one grade is statistically insignificant but I'm trying to think through the statement of the specific oil pump this car uses being spec'ed for 0W20 and 0W30 not being a good choice. Again, as a total non-engineering-minded person, what is a layman's way to think through this fallacy? Of course.....I'm totally open to someone supplying evidence that my online friend is right, although I doubt I'll get many arguing that side of the case.

Ask him to explain at what point is a 30 grade too thick compared to a 20 grade.

 

[cammyfive79]

Ask him to explain at what point is a 30 grade too thick compared to a 20 grade.
View attachment 312134

If I'm understanding him correctly, his argument is that the variable speed oil pump was put in the car specifically for 0W20. I totally get what you're saying but I'm trying to think of how to articulate that a variable speed oil pump won't know/care about 0W20 vs 0W30 which the Golf R/Audi S3 spec with the same engine (different tune and turbo) but the standard oil pump.

 

[MRC01]

Ask him to explain at what point is a 30 grade too thick compared to a 20 grade.
...

I totally get what you're saying but I'm trying to think of how to articulate that a variable speed oil pump won't know/care about 0W20 vs 0W30 which the Golf R/Audi S3 spec with the same engine (different tune and turbo) but the standard oil pump.

It's not about the oil pump. The graph shows that a 30 weight oil has the same viscosity as a 20 weight oil about 3*C colder. Does he think the engine running 3* C colder will damage the oil pump or anything else? Put differently, if the engine gets 3* hotter you'd need that 30 weight oil in order to have the same viscosity as the 20* C would have been before the engine got 3* hotter.

Put in those terms, it's obvious that the viscosity difference is a nothing-burger. What's more important is to ensure the oil meets other aspects of the specification.

 

[thescreensavers]

If I'm understanding him correctly, his argument is that the variable speed oil pump was put in the car specifically for 0W20. I totally get what you're saying but I'm trying to think of how to articulate that a variable speed oil pump won't know/care about 0W20 vs 0W30 which the Golf R/Audi S3 spec with the same engine (different tune and turbo) but the standard oil pump.

Forget talking science, if the Golf R and S3 use the same engine and oil pump that's all he should need to know. Talking details usually go over people's head imo.

 

[scrllock]

Show him the EA888 SSPs (self-study programs). VW has documented how that oil pump works and how it's changed through the generations. This has been posted many times here. It self-regulates. The only change they made for 0w20 was an oil pump sprocket that spins slightly faster to bring pressure up quicker. You can go through bearing part numbers on partslink, ilcats, etc. Nothing's changed there, aside from a coating on the main bearings on the Gen4/Mk8.

I've seen people run 20w50 (in the summer) with no issue. This argument is incessant.

 

[edyvw]

Tell him you are wearing bulletproof vest in case rod bearings come out flying.

 

[skyactiv]

I feel like saying something dumb.

 

[JavierH19]

I feel like saying something super dumb.

 

[cammyfive79]

^ not unexpected. A couple of the posts did sharpen the concept in my mind. Funny enough, he referenced a Reddit post when explaining the differences, so there's that.

 

[cammyfive79]

Tell him you are wearing bulletproof vest in case rod bearings come out flying.

Muh E92 M3?!?!?!

 

[skyactiv]

Minus in really cold weather, I think Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 might be just fine in these VW's. Thicker than 0W20 but not the old school xW30 HTHS 3.5 Euro thick.

 

[edyvw]

Muh E92 M3?!?!?!

Came as standard equipment.

 

[cammyfive79]

Came as standard equipment.

It’s a feature, sir, not a bug.

 

[edyvw]

I think your friend read the same guy we had “privilege “ to read in another topic about EA888 Budack.

 

[Dude-Man]

Been running 504 spec 5w-30 euro oils in the B9.5 2023 Audi A4 that calls for 508 0w-20. Winter temps too. No issues at all for 41k miles now.
I don’t care what they say, I would NOT run that thin crap (as good as the 508 spec is) in a high-strung turbo motor. I want a HTHS over 3.0 and thicker film for the timing chain.

 

[Bailes1992]

If I'm understanding him correctly, his argument is that the variable speed oil pump was put in the car specifically for 0W20. I totally get what you're saying but I'm trying to think of how to articulate that a variable speed oil pump won't know/care about 0W20 vs 0W30 which the Golf R/Audi S3 spec with the same engine (different tune and turbo) but the standard oil pump.

In basic terms, the oil pump will move the same volume of oil in a revolution regardless of viscosity. Obviously, this is a variable speed oil pump but it will still shift the same volume of oil for the mode it is in. This means oil pressure will be marginally higher, but certainly won't be high enough to cause any issues. And besides, that's what the relief valve is for.

 

[Boomer]

My take on this argument.....if the graph shows the oils having almost the same viscosities across the temperature band is correct, what is he advantage of using a 30 weight over a 20weight??

 

[TiGeo]

Online bro malarkey. No reason you can't run a 30 or 40 grade oil.