VW CC! What oil to use?

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw

It does not, someone mentione dit is lower SAPS (not low saps), I could be worong.

Got it. In addition to 505.01, anything carrying BMW LL-04 spec or MB 229.51 will also be low SAPS, for example Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w40, however, I don't have any first hand experience with this oil. None of my engines require low SAPS stuff, so I don't go out of my way to find it.

Yeah, I am still thinking to try in this engine Pennzoil Ultra 5W40 because of fuel dillution issues. I tried M1 but for example, engine with GC seems much lighter, lower camshaft noise.
So thinking to try Pennzoil Ultra 5W40 to increase a little cst.
However, I might try Pentosyn 5W40 or that Mobil 1. Only thing I need to find that M1.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
So thinking to try Pennzoil Ultra 5W40 to increase a little cst.

Not sure I follow. Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40 has about the same operating temp viscosity as Mobil 1 0w-40. Actually, the Mobil 1 is a tiny bit thicker.

Quote:

Only thing I need to find that Mobil 1.

Pep Boys.

 

[BritGerCarLuvr]

I am (and have been) running Mibil 1 ESP 5W30 (504.00, 507.00, LL-04, 229.51, 229.31, Porsche C30 backward compatible 502 00 / 503 00 / 503 01 / 505 00 / 505 01 / 506 00 / 506 01 and although the "bottle doesn't say it it's also 229.5, 229.3 and LL-01 as it covers the entire sphere of those specs and then some. Based on A3/B4, High HTHS > 3.5. Runs like a charm, good used oil analysis.
If you want slightly better used oil analysis, Total Quartz Energy 9000 0W30, but (and there is a but) the only reason why I run the ESP instead is the "reputation" the 2.5 timing chain sprokets have on those VW's. Other than that, they both run great.

 

[bigjl]

I have just put Castrol Edge FST 5w40 C3 Full Synthetic in my Pathfinder, it is a low saps oil, hence the C3 rating, I will have to check the bottle tomorrow to see what VW specs are mentioned.

Any reason why you don't like Castrol Edge as it is regarded as the premium Castrol product in the UK.

 

[bigjl]

Forgot to say I am unsure if the UK Castrol Edge is the same as the one available in the US as the US version is called Titanium or something like that.

I have checked a few oils and noted differences in what should be equivalent oils, I suspect changes due to different pump fuels and climate perhaps?

 

[Falcon_LS]

Out of interest, what is the recommended specification in your owner's manual? In mine, it's VW 502.00 rated SAE 5W-40 and I'm still on the factory fill for another 10,000 km (15,000 km drain intervals).

Haven't decided just yet, but I'm going to go with either Liqui-Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40 (PAO) or Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 (GTL).

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
Forgot to say I am unsure if the UK Castrol Edge is the same as the one available in the US as the US version is called Titanium or something like that.

I have checked a few oils and noted differences in what should be equivalent oils, I suspect changes due to different pump fuels and climate perhaps?


The EU Castrol and the U.S. Castrol are two different things.
Only Castrol in the U.S. that is same like in the EU is Castrol Edge 0W30 (which I am using).
Problem in the U.S. ar enot only oils but also much dirtier fuels. So in car like CC with direct injection engine it can become an issue.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Out of interest, what is the recommended specification in your owner's manual? In mine, it's VW 502.00 rated SAE 5W-40 and I'm still on the factory fill for another 10,000 km (15,000 km drain intervals).

Haven't decided just yet, but I'm going to go with either Liqui-Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40 (PAO) or Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 (GTL).

I use Castrol Edge 0W30 (German Castrol).
Used in first oil change Mobil 1 0W40. Just of my own preference, I use Castrol 0W30. Maybe I will switch next summer to Motul 5W40.

 

[Hessam]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Out of interest, what is the recommended specification in your owner's manual? In mine, it's VW 502.00 rated SAE 5W-40 and I'm still on the factory fill for another 10,000 km (15,000 km drain intervals).

Haven't decided just yet, but I'm going to go with either Liqui-Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40 (PAO) or Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 (GTL).

I use Castrol Edge 0W30 (German Castrol).
Used in first oil change Mobil 1 0W40. Just of my own preference, I use Castrol 0W30. Maybe I will switch next summer to Motul 5W40.


Isn't the BMW 5w30 essentially another european castrol oil that you can buy here in the states for pretty reasonable prices (compared to most regular us made syntec flavors available here).

Also just wondering the Castrol Syntec 5W-40 that you have come to disdain so much, is that the made in belgium (aka BC variety), or was that a newer made in US version of syntec 5w-40.
From what I remember reading on BITOG, BC was actually sort of a sleeper oil. Not as popular as GC obviously, but it had most of the same approvals.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: Hessam
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Out of interest, what is the recommended specification in your owner's manual? In mine, it's VW 502.00 rated SAE 5W-40 and I'm still on the factory fill for another 10,000 km (15,000 km drain intervals).

Haven't decided just yet, but I'm going to go with either Liqui-Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40 (PAO) or Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 (GTL).

I use Castrol Edge 0W30 (German Castrol).
Used in first oil change Mobil 1 0W40. Just of my own preference, I use Castrol 0W30. Maybe I will switch next summer to Motul 5W40.


Castrol does not sell a LL01 5w30 weight in the US.

Isn't the BMW 5w30 essentially another european castrol oil that you can buy here in the states for pretty reasonable prices (compared to most regular us made syntec flavors available here).

Also just wondering the Castrol Syntec 5W-40 that you have come to disdain so much, is that the made in belgium (aka BC variety), or was that a newer made in US version of syntec 5w-40.
From what I remember reading on BITOG, BC was actually sort of a sleeper oil. Not as popular as GC obviously, but it had most of the same approvals.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: Hessam
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Out of interest, what is the recommended specification in your owner's manual? In mine, it's VW 502.00 rated SAE 5W-40 and I'm still on the factory fill for another 10,000 km (15,000 km drain intervals).

Haven't decided just yet, but I'm going to go with either Liqui-Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40 (PAO) or Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 (GTL).

I use Castrol Edge 0W30 (German Castrol).
Used in first oil change Mobil 1 0W40. Just of my own preference, I use Castrol 0W30. Maybe I will switch next summer to Motul 5W40.


Castrol does not sell a LL01 5w30 weight in the US.

Isn't the BMW 5w30 essentially another european castrol oil that you can buy here in the states for pretty reasonable prices (compared to most regular us made syntec flavors available here).

Also just wondering the Castrol Syntec 5W-40 that you have come to disdain so much, is that the made in belgium (aka BC variety), or was that a newer made in US version of syntec 5w-40.
From what I remember reading on BITOG, BC was actually sort of a sleeper oil. Not as popular as GC obviously, but it had most of the same approvals.

 

[skyship]

If you have a car with a German engine, then use the same oil the majority of the Germans use, which is Liqui Moly.
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/web.nsf/id/pa_eng_oil_guide.html

I use LM synthoil high tech 5w40 and my used oil analysis results are very good after 10K km of severe service use, with wear metals at half of normal and a TBN of 5.7.
Castrol Edge 5w40 is also very popular here, but it is more expensive and if you don't push the OCI boundaries and want to save money GTX 10/40 will still produce good results, unless you have very cold winters.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Castrol Edge 5w40 is also very popular here, but it is more expensive

It's just the opposite here. When on sale, Edge is less expensive than Liqui Moly, not to mention LM is typically harder to find.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: skyship
If you have a car with a German engine, then use the same oil the majority of the Germans use, which is Liqui Moly.
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/web.nsf/id/pa_eng_oil_guide.html

I use LM synthoil high tech 5w40 and my used oil analysis results are very good after 10K km of severe service use, with wear metals at half of normal and a TBN of 5.7.
Castrol Edge 5w40 is also very popular here, but it is more expensive and if you don't push the OCI boundaries and want to save money GTX 10/40 will still produce good results, unless you have very cold winters.


I used LM before I moved to the US. It is OK, nothing more then that. If you ask me there are better oils out there then LM, including Mobil 1 0W40.
Total is also very good, and one oil that I was particularly happy with was Sellenia, but cannot find it in the U.S.
So I decided to use Mobil 1 again.

 

[skyship]

The BMW forum chaps averaged out their used oil analysis and found that in wear metal terms for a reasonable rather than extended OCI, Castrol GTX 5w30 (Part synthetic) beat Mobil 1 0w40, Edge 5w40 beat both of them although only by a small margin, so it was nothing to do with 30 vs 40, or 0 vs 5W. For some odd reason they didn't publish the LM Synthoil results, as it's a better oil than GTX and might have beat Edge.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: skyship
If you have a car with a German engine, then use the same oil the majority of the Germans use, which is Liqui Moly.
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/web.nsf/id/pa_eng_oil_guide.html

I use LM synthoil high tech 5w40 and my used oil analysis results are very good after 10K km of severe service use, with wear metals at half of normal and a TBN of 5.7.
Castrol Edge 5w40 is also very popular here, but it is more expensive and if you don't push the OCI boundaries and want to save money GTX 10/40 will still produce good results, unless you have very cold winters.


I used LM before I moved to the US. It is OK, nothing more then that. If you ask me there are better oils out there then LM, including Mobil 1 0W40.
Total is also very good, and one oil that I was particularly happy with was Sellenia, but cannot find it in the U.S.
So I decided to use Mobil 1 again.

 

[dparm]

Which Synthoil? The 5w40 sold here in the states is a lousy group 3 with no redeeming qualities, yet everyone is obsessed with it. Never seen an excellent UOA with it, just average.

The Synthoil 0w40 is about on-par with Mobil 1 0w40.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Which Synthoil? The 5w40 sold here in the states is a lousy group 3 with no redeeming qualities, yet everyone is obsessed with it. Never seen an excellent UOA with it, just average.

The Synthoil 0w40 is about on-par with Mobil 1 0w40.

I used European version since i lived there, full synthetic.
Like I said, good oil, but nothing special.
In Bosnia where I lived, and still spend a lot of time, temperature in the summer can reach 110 and in the winter to go all the way to 0, often if not even more. Since I am skier I was on mountains a lot where temperature drops like crazy since mountains in Bosnia are like Rockies here and oils that people really liked were Castrol, Mobil 1, Sellenia, Total and to certain extent LM.
One thing I learned when I moved here 7 years ago is that the U.S. Castrol is for sure different, on a bad side.
So I stick now to Mobil 1. Is it perfect choice? probably not. However, since roads in the U.S. are generally way slower then there and do not put too much constrain on an engine like in Europe it is fine.
If I had opportunity to drive my car 120mph all the time like there, I would probably order online Motul.

 

[skyship]

Castrol and LM do export some cheaper oil versions to the US, although most of their oils are the same. Unfortunatly the labels are changed to include HC synthetics in the fully synthetic group for both US and UK markets.
If an LM oil says Voll synthetic it is a real synthetic. If in doubt check the German LM or Castrol site (X.de) and you can select English.
Synthetic blend is another term causing confusion, as that is not used in Germany and to confuse matter more, HC synthetics are sometimes labelled synthetic technology oils in Germany.
The main reason why cheaper oils are sold in the US rather than the EU, is the 3K mile OCI myth. You don't need good oil if you keep changing it just because some dipstick puts a 3K sticker near the engine. The quick lube chains and garages can't put an oil sticker on a car that shows an OCI less than the manufacturers recommended OCI and are moderatly careful over which oils they use in Germany.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Castrol and LM do export some cheaper oil versions to the US, although most of their oils are the same. Unfortunatly the labels are changed to include HC synthetics in the fully synthetic group for both US and UK markets.
If an LM oil says Voll synthetic it is a real synthetic. If in doubt check the German LM or Castrol site (X.de) and you can select English.
Synthetic blend is another term causing confusion, as that is not used in Germany and to confuse matter more, HC synthetics are sometimes labelled synthetic technology oils in Germany.
The main reason why cheaper oils are sold in the US rather than the EU, is the 3K mile OCI myth. You don't need good oil if you keep changing it just because some dipstick puts a 3K sticker near the engine. The quick lube chains and garages can't put an oil sticker on a car that shows an OCI less than the manufacturers recommended OCI and are moderatly careful over which oils they use in Germany.


It is not only 3K myth.

1. In the U.S. you do not have legal requirements like in Germany (which is biggest EU market) where Full Synthetic means REALLY full synthetic.
2. Generally, the U.S. roads are way slower then in EU. European engines, are made for fast roads where 110-120 is normal speed. The U.S.? I just do not want to get into it. When I see people driving 20mph below speed limit in left lane I know why they sell cheap oil, because they CAN!

 

[skyship]

The marketing folks for Castrol in the US were responsible for the confusion, because they were making HC synthetics when Liqui Moly and Amsoil started producing full synthetic oils and obviously they wanted to describe their HC oils in the same way as the competition, so they filed a law suit to allow them to define their HC oils as full synthetics in the US. Castrol is owned by BP, so the UK just rubber stamped the US approval. Oddly enough Mobil contested the law suit in the US, when their EP oils were group 3, but I presume it was because they wanted to change to a group 4 base stock.

WIKI extract:
Controversy

In 2006, the results of a gas chromatography test on Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 were posted by an industry expert on the popular motor oil discussion website BITOG. It showed the oil to be primarily composed of a less expensive, Group III processed mineral oil. Until this time, Mobil 1 was believed to be a true synthetic, utilizing a Group IV (PAO) basestock. The release of this information has led to a backlash against ExxonMobil's lubricant products in many automotive communities. Ironically, in 1999, Mobil fought Castrol's change in formulation to a Group III basestock in motor oils being marketed as fully synthetic. Mobil claimed that Castrol was decieving their customer base, while degrading their products. The National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus eventually ruled that Castrol could continue to market their Syntec line as a fully synthetic motor oil. ExxonMobil currently refuses to comment on the primary basestock of their Mobil 1 series of oils. This has only added further confusion over the exact definition of the term "synthetic oil."