I hate all these misleading VW articles! Oh NO 25% drop?! Perhaps its because they can't sell any diesel models that made up about 25% of their sales each month. No articles are stating that fact. Actual gasoline model sales are about the same or higher compared to last year. Considering they have maintained gasoline car sales in this embarrassing scandal is pretty good.
VW-Audi Diesel Scandal: Desperation Needed
- Thread starter lubricatosaurus
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Bladecutter, I see you're asking for VW to find its niche and sell there. The Audi nameplate can provide the teutonic (German) engineering VW buyers have sought in the past, while avoiding the PR nightmare that taints the VW name.
Noting VW Auto Group sells passenger cars under the Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Audi, Porsche, SEAT, Škoda and Volkswagen marques; motorcycles under the Ducati brand; and commercial vehicles under the MAN, Scania, Neoplan and Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles marques.
Marketing of new lower-cost Audi models can fill that end of the cheaper market, leaving Porsche to expand and do well with more sports cars as usual.
Gotta be careful Audi doesn't sully their name while doing this though, as their relative exclusivity image (like Lexus, Infiniti, BMW) draws buyers to Audi now.
Similar to what Mercedes has done with the $30,000 CLA 250 sedan, something Mercedes marketed as "Hey, you can now afford a MERCEDES! Wow, you are not super rich, but here is Willem Dafoe playing a devil on TV you can make a deal with...." http://blog.caranddriver.com/mercedes-benz-cla-class-soul-super-bowl-commercial-its-a-[censored]-of-a-spot-the-ad-section/
Noting VW Auto Group sells passenger cars under the Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Audi, Porsche, SEAT, Škoda and Volkswagen marques; motorcycles under the Ducati brand; and commercial vehicles under the MAN, Scania, Neoplan and Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles marques.
Marketing of new lower-cost Audi models can fill that end of the cheaper market, leaving Porsche to expand and do well with more sports cars as usual.
Gotta be careful Audi doesn't sully their name while doing this though, as their relative exclusivity image (like Lexus, Infiniti, BMW) draws buyers to Audi now.
Similar to what Mercedes has done with the $30,000 CLA 250 sedan, something Mercedes marketed as "Hey, you can now afford a MERCEDES! Wow, you are not super rich, but here is Willem Dafoe playing a devil on TV you can make a deal with...." http://blog.caranddriver.com/mercedes-benz-cla-class-soul-super-bowl-commercial-its-a-[censored]-of-a-spot-the-ad-section/
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
I guess this was VWs well delayed revenge for the demise of the original Beetle due to US safety and emissions standards.
Really? The original Beetle belongs in the junk yard right next to the Crown Vic.
Any attempt to compare those two cars falls somewhere between ridiculous and idiotic.
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
I guess this was VWs well delayed revenge for the demise of the original Beetle due to US safety and emissions standards.
Really? The original Beetle belongs in the junk yard right next to the Crown Vic.
Any attempt to compare those two cars falls somewhere between ridiculous and idiotic.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
I guess this was VWs well delayed revenge for the demise of the original Beetle due to US safety and emissions standards.
Really? The original Beetle belongs in the junk yard right next to the Crown Vic.
Any attempt to compare those two cars falls somewhere between ridiculous and idiotic.
Don't know why...both sorely outdated technology.
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
I guess this was VWs well delayed revenge for the demise of the original Beetle due to US safety and emissions standards.
Really? The original Beetle belongs in the junk yard right next to the Crown Vic.
Any attempt to compare those two cars falls somewhere between ridiculous and idiotic.
Don't know why...both sorely outdated technology.
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JTK
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I apologize if I missed this in one of the other recent VeeDub diesel threads, but in terms of being the owner of one of these effected diesels, what is the big deal with owning one?
Will they not pass yearly inspection in States that require emissions testing, clear OBDII status, etc?
Will they not pass yearly inspection in States that require emissions testing, clear OBDII status, etc?
Originally Posted By: JTK
I apologize if I missed this in one of the other recent VeeDub diesel threads, but in terms of being the owner of one of these effected diesels, what is the big deal with owning one?
Will they not pass yearly inspection in States that require emissions testing, clear OBDII status, etc?
No problem with smog test.
Because VW has cheating software to pass smog test but it pollutes the air up to 40 times the limit in real world.
I apologize if I missed this in one of the other recent VeeDub diesel threads, but in terms of being the owner of one of these effected diesels, what is the big deal with owning one?
Will they not pass yearly inspection in States that require emissions testing, clear OBDII status, etc?
No problem with smog test.
Because VW has cheating software to pass smog test but it pollutes the air up to 40 times the limit in real world.
I don't see this as a major PR problem for VW.
At least not yet.
VW buyers got a faster, more fuel efficient car. VW knew about a problem that had enabled them to sell a "better" car, and covered it up lest they have to rework the cars and reduce the performance. Sure, there was a little extra pollution. And that irks a lot of people. But most of those didn't buy a VW. The only people that matter, VW's actual customers, came out ahead.
GM, on the other hand, has a major PR problem. Most people don't care because they don't have GM cars and the flaw is extremely unlikely to injure them. But the people that matter, those that buy new GM cars, do care. GM knew about a problem that could kill them, and covered it up.
It's the difference between a bartender busted for serving too-strong drinks when there is a two-drink limit, and a bar that is busted for selling methanol tainted booze. You might tsk-tsk the first one, but you'll go back there.
At least not yet.
VW buyers got a faster, more fuel efficient car. VW knew about a problem that had enabled them to sell a "better" car, and covered it up lest they have to rework the cars and reduce the performance. Sure, there was a little extra pollution. And that irks a lot of people. But most of those didn't buy a VW. The only people that matter, VW's actual customers, came out ahead.
GM, on the other hand, has a major PR problem. Most people don't care because they don't have GM cars and the flaw is extremely unlikely to injure them. But the people that matter, those that buy new GM cars, do care. GM knew about a problem that could kill them, and covered it up.
It's the difference between a bartender busted for serving too-strong drinks when there is a two-drink limit, and a bar that is busted for selling methanol tainted booze. You might tsk-tsk the first one, but you'll go back there.
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Originally Posted By: djb
The only people that matter, VW's actual customers, came out ahead.
They saved a tad of fuel however they overpaid for the TDI car(IMHO) to start with and now have tanked in resale and desirability. No matter what any posts I have a hard time being duped into believing it costs significantly more (>$1000) for a TDI vs gasser to produce. Same is true of full size trucks but its accepted practice there for profit machines.
The only people that matter, VW's actual customers, came out ahead.
They saved a tad of fuel however they overpaid for the TDI car(IMHO) to start with and now have tanked in resale and desirability. No matter what any posts I have a hard time being duped into believing it costs significantly more (>$1000) for a TDI vs gasser to produce. Same is true of full size trucks but its accepted practice there for profit machines.
If dealers are going to be the savior of VW in North America, then VW is doomed. In any case, the dealers' role in this is exaggerated, and VW will recover.
madRiver: You have a point about tanked resale value. But, how often do you find a used diesel VW out there with anything less than 200,000 miles on the thing? All I ever see sold here, and have for years, are brand new or half a million kilometres, with precious little in between.
madRiver: You have a point about tanked resale value. But, how often do you find a used diesel VW out there with anything less than 200,000 miles on the thing? All I ever see sold here, and have for years, are brand new or half a million kilometres, with precious little in between.
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Originally Posted By: djb
The only people that matter, VW's actual customers, came out ahead.
They saved a tad of fuel however they overpaid for the TDI car(IMHO) to start with and now have tanked in resale and desirability. No matter what any posts I have a hard time being duped into believing it costs significantly more (>$1000) for a TDI vs gasser to produce. Same is true of full size trucks but its accepted practice there for profit machines.
I can believe it does. TDI requires four very high pressure injectors (30,000psi?) and/or a high pressure fuel pump, an intercooler and turbocharger. Plus the engine is designed to deal with high compression ratio. Meanwhile, a 2.slow soldiered on with none of that. Now a TSI might be a more fair comparison.
Originally Posted By: djb
The only people that matter, VW's actual customers, came out ahead.
They saved a tad of fuel however they overpaid for the TDI car(IMHO) to start with and now have tanked in resale and desirability. No matter what any posts I have a hard time being duped into believing it costs significantly more (>$1000) for a TDI vs gasser to produce. Same is true of full size trucks but its accepted practice there for profit machines.
I can believe it does. TDI requires four very high pressure injectors (30,000psi?) and/or a high pressure fuel pump, an intercooler and turbocharger. Plus the engine is designed to deal with high compression ratio. Meanwhile, a 2.slow soldiered on with none of that. Now a TSI might be a more fair comparison.
The dealer I bought my Sportwagen from had only one complaint about the situation. Not enough inventory.
As a company, VW will be fine. If things get bad enough (and I doubt they will) the German government will step in to prop them up a la General Motors. VW is more important to the German economy than even GM was to the US. Last I read Germany's portion for the Greek bailout was over 50 billion euro. Does anyone really think they will let VW sink rather than kick in a few billion to save the pride of Teutonic heavy industry? I don't condone VW intentionally breaking the law, but they will no doubt hammer out a deal with the various government agencies around the world and will move on. It will hurt, they will suffer some and the massive fine money can be frittered away by bureaucrats with little to show for it.
As a company, VW will be fine. If things get bad enough (and I doubt they will) the German government will step in to prop them up a la General Motors. VW is more important to the German economy than even GM was to the US. Last I read Germany's portion for the Greek bailout was over 50 billion euro. Does anyone really think they will let VW sink rather than kick in a few billion to save the pride of Teutonic heavy industry? I don't condone VW intentionally breaking the law, but they will no doubt hammer out a deal with the various government agencies around the world and will move on. It will hurt, they will suffer some and the massive fine money can be frittered away by bureaucrats with little to show for it.
After my horrid VW TDI experience, I am starting to think there may be a God. Because they (VW) deserve everything they get.
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
As a company, VW will be fine. If things get bad enough (and I doubt they will) the German government will step in to prop them up a la General Motors.
True since part of Germany actually owns VW Auto Group.
VW Auto Group Owners:
Porsche Automobil Holding SE
Volkswagen holdings
State of Lower Saxony -- state owned! partly
Qatar Investment Authority --- Made of Money -- liquefied natural gas, oil
Capital Group Companies --- the planet's pension/retirement funds
As a company, VW will be fine. If things get bad enough (and I doubt they will) the German government will step in to prop them up a la General Motors.
True since part of Germany actually owns VW Auto Group.
VW Auto Group Owners:
Porsche Automobil Holding SE
Volkswagen holdings
State of Lower Saxony -- state owned! partly
Qatar Investment Authority --- Made of Money -- liquefied natural gas, oil
Capital Group Companies --- the planet's pension/retirement funds
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Consumers have short memories lower the price and they will come right back.
I think you're right.
However, those who are forced to have their TDIs fixed to yield less power and inferior fuel economy, and no owner will have a choice in this, won't forget.
Those who've owned VWs in the past won't forget their troubles either.
The remaining 99% of the population might just come to a VW store when shopping, however, if the price or lease deal is right.
If VW can resolve the real reliability problems, and despite what the fanboys may say, VWs are not known for reliability along with the lousy dealer problem, then there is no reason that VW can't be fully competitive with Honda and Toyota in markets outside of the EU.
As of now, VW sales are no more than a rounding error in the US.
Consumers have short memories lower the price and they will come right back.
I think you're right.
However, those who are forced to have their TDIs fixed to yield less power and inferior fuel economy, and no owner will have a choice in this, won't forget.
Those who've owned VWs in the past won't forget their troubles either.
The remaining 99% of the population might just come to a VW store when shopping, however, if the price or lease deal is right.
If VW can resolve the real reliability problems, and despite what the fanboys may say, VWs are not known for reliability along with the lousy dealer problem, then there is no reason that VW can't be fully competitive with Honda and Toyota in markets outside of the EU.
As of now, VW sales are no more than a rounding error in the US.
Many will have a choice. For instance, in this province, there's no regulatory regime to enforce this.
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Lubricatosaurus, you have made the statement of 'Volkswagen Auto Group' on numerous occasions in this thread. Do you realize this is not what VAG stands for?
VAG stands for Volkswagen AG (Aktiengesellschaft). This is the German word for 'corporation'. It isn't Volkswagen Audi Group or Volkswagen Auto Group, or any other combination of the letters VAG other than Volkswagen AG.
Sorry, but details such as this must be addressed.
VAG stands for Volkswagen AG (Aktiengesellschaft). This is the German word for 'corporation'. It isn't Volkswagen Audi Group or Volkswagen Auto Group, or any other combination of the letters VAG other than Volkswagen AG.
Sorry, but details such as this must be addressed.
FowVay, good feedback. My apologies. My German is rusty beyond repair. So, since its almost Christmas, I'll just say "Happy Fahrvergnügen Season" to ya.
It is often called "VW Group" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group and it does contain multiple brands.
It is often called "VW Group" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group and it does contain multiple brands.
The TDI accounted for 25% of sales at VW.
Lets say they fix that with less MPG and price decrease coupled to cheap fuel. They at best will get 5-10% returns. The balance of sales are likely effected by 1/3 unless some serious price price slashing happens.
I think they come back next year with less sales then Subaru. Maybe between Mazda and Subaru in terms of volume. Concentrate on profitable Audi IMHO which average consumer does not know its the same company(excellent branding/marketing!).
If they want to become relevent they need a decent cross over to appeal to US sales. That does not exist. The issue is their budget is now burned to develop a 7 passenger midsize CUV.
Lets say they fix that with less MPG and price decrease coupled to cheap fuel. They at best will get 5-10% returns. The balance of sales are likely effected by 1/3 unless some serious price price slashing happens.
I think they come back next year with less sales then Subaru. Maybe between Mazda and Subaru in terms of volume. Concentrate on profitable Audi IMHO which average consumer does not know its the same company(excellent branding/marketing!).
If they want to become relevent they need a decent cross over to appeal to US sales. That does not exist. The issue is their budget is now burned to develop a 7 passenger midsize CUV.
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